I haven’t been able to find the chapter 6 of The Book of Baruch in the Apocrypha. I later found out that chapter 6 was originally a separate work called the Letter of Jeremiah. I did a search on the letter of Jeremiah and found chapter 6, which I am discussing here.
Click here for The Letter of Jeremiah
Letter of Jeremiah or Baruch 6:4-6
Click here for a statue of Mary being carried in procession.
Letter of Jeremiah or Baruch 6:9
Letter of Jeremiah or Baruch 6:12
Click here for satutes with crowns and dressed in robes.
Letter of Jeremiah or Baruch 6:19
Click here for pics of nuns with candels.
Picture
So, according to the 6th Chapter of Baruch or the Letter of Jeremiah, the ancient pagan Babylonians crowned their statues with crowns of gold or silver, carried them in procession on their shoulders, dressed them with regal clothing, and lit great numbers of candles to these statues of gold, silver, stone and wood. Modern Babylon, the Roman Catholic Church, does exactly and precisely the same to honor its statues of Mary, Jesus and what it calls Saints.
Is there a connection here?
The Catholics link to Idolatry from Ancient Baylon
Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by john6:63, Nov 19, 2003.
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From the same article you used as a source:
Catholics do not worship Mary. They do show her great respect and honor for her role in salvation history, however. The Bible is clear about this, Father Linsky said. "We worship God alone. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Him alone shall you adore. Him alone shall you bow down in front of because worship is for God and no other. The Bible tells you, 'I am a jealous God.'
"So brothers and sisters, if you leave here and you have the foolish temerity to tell someone we came to the Catholic Church to worship Mary, you are wrong. But you did come this day to give her the great veneration and the respect that she deserves." -
The Catholic priest is arguing from authority. You need to quit listening to what others say and rely upon the Holy Spirit through prayer to guide you in truth.
The Ten Commandments, which was written by God’s, own finger prohibits graven images in very explicit terms. Catholics openly parade these statues in procession and are venerated by Catholics, which is an open and direct contradiction to Gods commandment. If a Catholic priest tells you that’s not idol worship, then you need to go to Gods Word, The Bible, which is the source of right and wrong, truth and error. It is an instruction book for those who call themselves Christian (2 Tim. 3:16). You maybe surprised at what you may learn.
Now, back to the original question. The letter of Jeremiah records the actions the Babylonians took regarding their idol worship. Does this not disturb you one bit, that this type of actions from the Catholic Church is a page straight from the Babylonian era? Is there a connection between the two as described by Jeremiah? -
You want to know the connection? The connection is that we were made to worship God. It's in our nature. The Babylonians were simply expressing their human nature. They just hadn't been told of the one and only proper object of worship. Catholics have been told of God, the one and only proper object of worship. In fact, it was Catholics who told you folks. That's the connection. -
No. You are making superfical comparisons.
Catholics do not confuse statues with idols.
No Catholic believes that a statue is a god.
This thread is just another rehash of the same old tired claim that Catholics worship idols.
Many Christian beliefs can be found in ancient pagan beliefs. Does that make them the same? -
Superficial comparisons? Did you even read the Letter of Jeremiah? The Catholics are doing the exact same as the Babylonians did. The Catholics maybe worshipping the same God as I, but in a totally different manner that contradicts Gods word.
Maybe your confused b/c the Catholics completely disregard or omit the second commandment of God. They then spilt the ninth commandment into two to complete ten.
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, THE TEN COMMANDMENTS
Exodus 20:4
Question. Keeping Exodus 20:4 in mind, what if I created a statue of the now deceased legendary College Football coach Gen Robert Neyland of the Tennessee Volunteers and I lit candles at it’s feet and prayed to the general and paraded the statue up and down my block. Would God then be jealous? I would say so.
So what is the difference if I were to create a statue of Peter of Mary and treat it the same? Didn’t God explicitly say not to make any graven image or likeness of any thing that is in heaven… I would say that Peter and Mary are in heaven and thus they would qualify as a direct contradiction to the second commandment of God.
Why did the Catholics omit the sixth chapter of Baruch? Why did the Catholics omit the second commandment and divide commandment nine into two? -
If those who follow Rome do not worship Mary,why would the Pope himself speak of "Marian Worship"?:
At the moment that Jesus entrusts his mother to St. John, "it is possible to
understand the authentic meaning of Marian worship in the ecclesial community
... which furthermore is based on the will of Christ.("Vatican Information Service",May 7,1997).
http://www.cin.org/archives/cintuus/199705/0003.html
In His grace,--Jerry -
If you believe a saint's feast day is devoid of worship of God, you are sorely mistaken; it is filled to the brim with praise for God.
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Statue does not = graven image.
please. This isn't even worth an argument. -
BROTHER ADAM!!!
Haven't talked to you in so long! I see Teresa online from time to time, but not you. Hope life is treating you well and the Lord is showering His blessings on you! -
Right, Israel, by God’s sanction and instructions, carried the Ark of the Covenant in procession, which contained what? The Ten commandments of God written on tables of stone by God’s own finger, which btw prohibited graven images in very clear terms. In addition God detailed instructions of the construction of the Ark, which included two gold cherubs covering an area known as the ‘Mercy Seat.’
The Ark of the Covenant is where God manifested His presence on earth. The Ark went ahead of the Israelites whenever they traveled. The Ark also was the center of worship when it resided in the Tabernacle in a special place known as the Holy of Holies and was the most sacred object in the Tabernacle. The Ark was also used as protection in battle.
Even the Book of Numbers 21:8-9, God sanctioned a symbol, not an idol, which could be looked to in faith and be saved. God didn’t sanction the creating of statues of Mary and the Saints.
That’s funny…you still didn’t answer WHY Exodus 20:4 is omitted from the ‘A Traditional Catechetical Formula’ side of the link I provided. Exodus 20:3 covers the ‘no strange gods.’ But where is Exodus 20:4, you know the ‘graven image’ verse?
No He said Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth
Peter and Mary are in Heaven. The statue in your church is an image that is in Heaven above.
Don’t answer a question with a question. I’m curious why the last chapter of Baruch is omitted. Either you know or you don’t. -
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Just curious, if a "saved" politican or sports figure, etc., were to die, should we run aaround smashing all the statues, busts, and paintings of them?
For that matter when a "saved" person in your church dies, does everyone destroy all of the photos of the deceased? They are after all in Heaven, right?
[ November 19, 2003, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: trying2understand ] -
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If you want to have a statue of Mary or a Saint, then fine. But don’t hold a tradition that the Babylonians held regarding their statues. Or you’ll be defending your faith constantly, b/c it’s not biblical. I don’t worship or parade the cross that’s hanging in my Churches sanctuary. I look at the cross as a remembrance only. -
Brother,
We look at the cross as a remembrance only. Carrying it in a procession does not change that. Reverence is reverence, regardless.
Further, you seem to say it's okay to do that with the Ark of the Covenant because God ordained it specifically to be done.
That leaves two choices:
1) God does not have a problem with the procession of images that represent Him and His glory, since they direct one's mind to God, or
2) God asked man to break the law that God set forth, therefore undermining the whole moral process. If the law can be broken simply because "God said so," then God Himself voids the law, and any yahoo can kill someone because "God said so," and you won't be able to argue it, because you believe God allows the breaking of His own law.
I'm betting on number one. -
quote:
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A graven image is a statue and is then an idol when one treats it as did the Babylonians did. Again compare the Letter of Jeremiah to the practices of the Catholics.
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GraceSaves said --
The Babylonians believed those statues TO BE GODS. We do not, and thus the distinction is destroyed at this point.
Actually - Budhists Hindus ets all declare that their images "represent" those whom they pray to - something the Hebrews never did - but something the Catholics have adopted.
Bob -
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Bob bolded this portion because it is terribly worded, and it looks like it says something it doesn't (I had to reread it several times to grasp what he was saying).
Indeed, they did not make that distinction because there were no saints in Heaven, as I have pointed out. But this is not an either/or situation, but a both/and. We realize and adore the God who is the source of everything as well having the saints in Heaven intercede for us on our behalf. the "we must" was in regards to "making the distinction;" this surely follows from the grammar, although its placement was terrible to give it an improper emphasis.
And we do INDEED make this distinction, because there is infinite separation in the veneration of the faithful departed who are alive with the Lord in Heaven and GOD HIMSELF. ALLELUIA!
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