So, let me get this straight.
You see in these passages a God who chooses to save whole NATIONS and chooses for hundreds of generations NOT to bring salvation to other WHOLE NATIONS and you think that means that God would NEVER elect individuals and pass over other individuals?
Does that make sense to you?
The God who lets entire nations perish for hundreds of generations would never pass over a single individual?????
The conflicted Calvinist
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Skandelon, Feb 23, 2013.
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
HeirofSalvation
Hello HOS.
Sometimes he cuts and pastes from false sites....but he says he just says what he feels he sees in scripture.
I do not think he comprehends well when he reads.One thing I notice is he seems to want to be disruptive.
Personally....I believe the Apostles were the first Reformed Baptists as the early church was already struggling to stay in the truth.I believe Jesus teaching, with the apostolic writing our the first confession of faith.Eph2:20
:thumbs:
This is correct in a sense-All authority has been given to Jesus..MT28
He is building His church.I am a living stone in that church.I have come to the heavenly Zion and Jerusalem.
The Presbyterian model is biblical but mistaken in a couple of areas.That is another separate discussion.
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
It is not a contrast of jew/gentile....but rather jew/jew rom9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. -
People erroneously mix terms.
Regeneration leads to salvation. It is essential to salvation. But it is no more ITSELF salvation than a cup of water is hydration.
A cup of water makes hydration POSSIBLE. Without it hydration is impossible. But the cup of water ITSELF is not to be confused with hydration.
I may even speak poetically of this cup of water by saying, "I hold in my hand my own quenched thirst." But I say it, hopefully, in the presence of people intelligent enough to know that it is not ACTUALLY quenched thirst. It is that which makes quenched thirst possible.
Regeneration is NOT, NOT, NOT a synonym for salvation.
It is poor hermeneutics that leads one to mix terms that have their own meaning as if they all mean the same thing. -
Which is it? Is Satan doing it or is God, or do you think they are one in the same considering that God apparently has "full control" of Satan, His evil puppet?
You know what, don't bother...I'm tired of talking to someone who believes God and Satan are controlled by the same will and thus are the same person. Sorry if that sounds rude, harsh or whatever...its just what it is and I'm done with it.
You get the last word...good bye. :wavey: -
HeirofSalvation Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Luke2427 said: ↑So, let me get this straight.
You see in these passages a God who chooses to save whole NATIONS and chooses for hundreds of generations NOT to bring salvation to other WHOLE NATIONS and you think that means that God would NEVER elect individuals and pass over other individuals?
Does that make sense to you?
The God who lets entire nations perish for hundreds of generations would never pass over a single individual?????Click to expand...
In Hebrews 3, the writer stated that those who died and didn't enter into the rest for the children of God, did so, not for the lack of an atonement, but a lack of belief. So it shows you that the lamb/goat atonement in Exodus and the confession over a male goat(scapegoat) in Leviticus 16, was larger than the # of those who actually received it. The atonement was for all of Israel, but only those who believed, received it. The same rings true today. Jesus' atonement was for every single person who ever lived, or are living now, and those who come along later, and it left no one out. But, only those who chose/choose to believe, will reap the benefits of His atoning work. -
Iconoclast said: ↑Evidently you and Willis do not understand rom9:thumbsup:Click to expand...
Oh we understand it quite well, I am afraid. We just don't need the likes of Calvin, Beza, MacArthur, Piper, Spurgeon, et al to lead us by the hand.
It is not a contrast of jew/gentile....but rather jew/jew rom9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:Click to expand...
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.Click to expand...
The predestination/election view you take has man at the center of it. Read Isaiah 42, and then John 15, and you'll see that election revolves around Christ being predestinated/elected to accomplish God's will. When we are saved, and placed in Him, we then are grafted into His election/predestination, and not before. Your view is the view which actually elevates man's status before God, and not ours. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Willis,
When we are saved, and placed in Him, we then are grafted into His election/predestination, and not before.Click to expand...
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
I would say this was before....before creation!
Isaac was of God's promise to AbrahamClick to expand... -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Hos,
You are liable to believe that Paul is speaking about individuals and their personal salvation. He isn't.Click to expand...
1 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) -
Iconoclast said: ↑Willis,
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
I would say this was before....before creation!
so were we Willis 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.Click to expand...
Hallelujah, I agree with this 100%!! :godisgood::jesus::godisgood::jesus: -
HeirofSalvation Well-Known MemberSite SupporterIconoclast
Let's discuss him.He does indeed make things up, just look at how he abuses scripture after scripture.Click to expand...
DHK tried to reason with him concerning his false ideas on ECCL7:29. He remains unteachable.Click to expand...
Sometimes he cuts and pastes from false sites....Click to expand...
but he says he just says what he feels he sees in scripture.Click to expand...
I do not think he comprehends well when he reads.Click to expand...
One thing I notice is he seems to want to be disruptive.Click to expand...
You know what I honestly believe? I think Winman wipes the floor with Calvinists around here quite often and frankly there is no adequate rejoinder or Scriptural refutation of his arguments and therefore, I think some of the Calvies around here (in large part) despise his posting because he often gets the upper-hand. I think that is why he catches more crap around here than many others do. He is continually posting Scripture, and usually not "abusing" it at all. Frankly, I rarely see a Calvinist take on his Scriptural arguments....they simply ignore any Scriptural argument he makes (because they can't refute it) or derisively dismiss it with a wave of the hand, and merely assert that he "abuses" Scripture. Often, this is coupled with their own separate arguments for their own P.O.V....but, rarely do they actually (satisfactorilly at least) actually engage the Scriptures he posts at all.
He fought for what he believed in his time.I do not pick fights with dead saints.Some of what he believed I also believe.However,
God brought reformation to His church because the church was floundering and infected with arminian error.The reformers not only reformed from the RC church....but had to bring reformation to anabaptist errors...see John Knox against anabaptist errors.Click to expand...
You can allege what you want but the view I hold of the CHURCH is bible based , not based on the historical record.Click to expand...
I am a Reformed Baptist in that I will go for scriptural truth wherever it is found.I have more in common with confessional Presbyterians than non confessional baptists.That is true.Click to expand...
Many of his posts are novelties, many are blasphemous statements.Click to expand...
I do not believe the Spirit of God has believers declare such statements about the Godhead.Click to expand...
Cals respond to the posted links...non cals cannot biblically respond, so they ignore the links.Click to expand...
He has done so several times....he gives a list every couple of months where he lists names he is called...just ask him...he will list them for you,,,in fact he has done so recently...look at his recent posts.
Look up his posts...it is not false,but accurate.Click to expand... -
HeirofSalvation Well-Known MemberSite SupporterIconoclast said: ↑Hos,
You do not get any more individual then twins in a womb-
1 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)Click to expand...
You do not get any more individual then twins in a womb-Click to expand...
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