Featured The conflicted Calvinist

Many churches teach what you call Semi-Pelagius teaching. Most Baptist churches teach free will. Calvinists are in the minority among Baptist churches on free will.

There have been free will Baptist churches from the beginning, so there goes your Historical argument, not that history means truth.

 

I am very happy that Doctrines of Grace is in the minority.....

The Narrow and Wide Gates

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it

 

So are you now saying that if one does not hold to Calvinism (I reject the term doctrines of grace as it is applied here) then one is not born again?

 

Winman

Sure he did.

There is no "could". Life happens in real time with real people.Sinners sin everyday.Little sins , big sins. Life is not hypothetical.
if any sin is restrained or not restrained there are real actions that follow.
10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. so Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.

No...the sinner apart from grace....sins

 

If a person MUST commit sin then God does not allow it, he causes it. That is simple logic.

For God to allow the Newtown shooter to commit his sin, he must also allow that he could change his mind and not perform this sin. If the man MUST sin, then he is not allowed, but COMPELLED.

More Calvinist double-talk and contradiction. You say God allows sin, but you deny that any event could happen any other way. Thus, all evil events are not allowed, but CAUSED by God. They MUST happen, it is impossible that they not happen. They are not allowed, but determined by God.

Of course, what are definitions to a Calvinist? Allowed? It can mean anything a Calvinist wants it to mean at the moment. :wavey:

 

Winman,
You have ignored the scriptures that Herald and I offered that give the answer.Sinners sin 24/7...that is why they are called sinners, they like it, they plan sin.

When an event HAPPENS it is done, finished.It has already occured.
To speculate and try to blame God for the shooters sin is vain .

Could the shooter have choked to death the night before at Dead Lobster on the daily special? Could he have been run over by a cement mixer? Could he have bumped into you and after listening to you committed himself ?

These events did not happen Winman.Sin, murder and death did happen. There is no what if.
Then only contradiction is you trying in vain to explain away reality:thumbs:

 

So, when a sinner tells the truth that is a sin? Well, ain't that a fix, you are damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

So, why should Christians tell the unsaved to turn from sin? What difference does it make? If they are going to sin when they are faithful to their wife, they might as well cheat. You are a sinner just the same, might as well enjoy it.

What about working? Why not steal? You are just as wicked if you work, might as well steal, a lot easier than working.

Now that is the kind of total nonsense Calvinism teaches. If you cannot see how stupid this is, you cannot be helped.

If this young fellow HAD to kill all these children because God ordained it and he could not do anything else, why should he be held guilty? He performed the will of God just as God ordained.

Again, if you cannot see how utterly stupid this thinking is, there is nothing I or anybody else could say that would help you. It is idiotic.

 

Why do you care what I believe? Are you not confident in your own beliefs? Are you not a Pastor & Teacher of Christianity? Should it matter what anyone believes other than your understanding of God & Salvation? If you reject the Doctrines of Grace, do you really & truly think I will loose sleep over it? :laugh:

 

No. Judas Iscariot could not have chosen differently either. But God is not responsible for the actions of either of these men. God removed His restraining hand and allowed them to make their sinful choices. God used their sinful choices as part of His divine purpose, but yet without God being culpable for sin.

 

I am convinced that we are all conflicted in one way or another or to one degree or another, regardless which theological party we claim membership in. We all run into things and issues which we simply cannot explain or comprehend, however we each do our best to beat each other up about it, whatever "it" is at any given moment.

 

A good Christian attitude demands your caring. So I guess that yours is nonexistent, is this right?
MB

 

You make your choices....if you make your wrong choice that is your own free will doctrine expressing its liberty in you messing up....hey, thats your choice. Right!

so again, why loose sleep over you exercising your own free will? Not going to happen. Your doctrine, not mine.

 

Men are not compelled to sin, otherwise men would ALWAYS sin the greatest sin possible.

If a sinner finds a wallet and returns it, then he is not enslaved to sin, otherwise he could not possibly return it.

If Judas HAD to betray Jesus because God ordained it, then why is he guilty? He did exactly what God wanted him to do.

This is the nonsensical teaching of Calvinism, a person sins when they do exactly what God ordained them to do.

Now, I believe God KNEW Judas would certainly betray Jesus and allowed it, but Judas had to have a real choice, otherwise he cannot be held responsible.

 

In other words....we are all hypocrites.

 

Men are not compelled to sin, otherwise men would ALWAYS sin the greatest sin possible.

THEY ARE NOT...... Really?!?

:laugh:

 

If you were a sinner and truly enslaved to sin as you teach, you could not possibly return the wallet. You must obey your nature and keep the wallet.

Even Calvinists recognize this weakness in their doctrine, and so argue men are not as bad as they could possibly be. But this is a contradiction and shows men are not enslaved to sin and have the ability to do good.

The scriptures clearly say men can do good.

Luk 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

Jesus knows proper doctrine and what "good" is, and he said sinners do good.

God's commandments and punishment would be nonsensical unless men have the ability to obey them.

The scriptures do not teach that we sin because we are a servant of sin, they teach that when we sin we become the servant of sin.

Jhn 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

When you commit sin, you "sell" yourself to sin like a slave in the ancient markets. You now belong to sin, and the payment for sin is death. It does not mean you are compelled to sin. This is a great misunderstanding.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Again, this is the mistake folks make, the scriptures do not teach we are compelled to sin, but they do teach when we sin we are sold to sin like a servant and belong to it. When you trust Christ you die to sin and no longer belong to it, just as a wife no longer belongs to her husband if he dies. This is what the scriptures mean by being a servant of sin.

 

Ahhh, come on....are you really trying to get me to believe this without examining motive. A sinner prior to getting saved may indeed return a wallat....but for what motive & who is being glorified for the work of it? But the born again has formed a conscience....he returns the goods because thats the right & godly thing to do & his conscience nag's him till he does the right thing.....nothing more & nothing less. Tell me you dont agree to that!

 

Even unsaved people are influenced by the word of God, almost everybody knows the 10 commandments. Many unsaved people would return the lost wallet because they have been taught that is what God wants them to do.

If a person were truly enslaved by a sinful nature they would ALWAYS do the worst possible thing. The fact that even unsaved people do not do this shows your view wrong.

Again, when the scriptures say we are a servant to sin, it means the moment we sin we come under condemnation. We are "sold" to sin just as a servant was in the ancient markets. It does not mean you are compelled to sin, even a slave can disobey his master, even run away. But he belongs to his master and when he is captured he is returned. Likewise, once you sin you belong to sin and shall receive the payment, death. Even if you do good, you still belong to sin and cannot escape death.

When you accept Christ you are baptized into his body and die with him. You no longer belong to sin, you are no longer sin's servant. You are now under grace and belong to Jesus.

It is a wrong conception of what the scriptures mean by "servant of sin" that has folks mixed up. Even a slave has a will of his own and can disobey his master. We are not compelled to sin, and reality bears this out as true.

 

Yes, I guess you could say that. If you are among the redeemed and profess Christ, and you ever sin, then by definition yes you are behaving hypocritical.

hyp·o·crite [hip-uh-krit]
noun
1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
2.
a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, especially one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements

 

Here is exactly where I disagree with you.... their only possible motive has nothing to do with religion, the 10 Commandments, the moon being full , karma or what goes around comes around theories....the only possible motive is how that makes my ego feel....look at me, I am the better person from you etc.

The Saved Born again has a different motive entirely....now its all about God & what does God want me to do....so again one motivation is all about Me, Myself & !. The other situation, with the Christian is all of God.