I don't understand what you're trying to say here. Apologies, I might be having a dense day.
FTR, I practice a personal convictional stance in which I completely abstain from all alcoholic beverages (can't do much about medicines) as part of my calling to be a pastor. However, I do not hold others (and other pastors) to my personal conviction. While the Bible is clear that drunkenness is sin, it is reasonable to note it permits alcohol consumption...even prescribes it in several places. That prescription is not absolute, but personal.
The danger of teetotalism
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Luke2427, Sep 10, 2012.
Page 2 of 3
-
preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
-
I have been going to the same cardiologist for 17+ years and he has yet to recommend that I drink any alcoholic beverage. So! he is a sorry doctor? I see him next week, God willing. If I think about it I will ask him about the pint a day!
And I am out of here! -
Not one IOTA of a problem do I have with such people.
The problem I have ALL OF US OUGHT TO HAVE.
It is with the danger of people who don't know beans from apple butter about how to interpret Scripture going about preach for doctrines the traditions of man.
-
-
I posted this in the other thread and it needs to be viewed here apparently as well: This is for those who wish to see the facts from the other side of the coin and what many doctors and colleges are saying on the issue of moderate daily drinking.
From the Mayo Clinic, a very reputable health organization (one of many) ALL emphasis added to quoted texts are mine.
And from Weill Cornwell Medical College, from their article: "Health Benefits of Alcohol Depend on Drinking in Moderation"
This part is just interesting as I didn't know this, so this is just a side bar:
The below doesn't take into account alcohol content only amount / calories
Alcohol Research and Treatment Center,
Section of Liver Disease and Nutrition,
Bronx VA Medical Center and Mount Sinai
School of Medicine, New York
Here is the first part:
-
It supports the responsible consumption of alcohol.
One of the studies here says that they do not recommend telling people who do not drink to start drinking due to the negative effects of alcohol. No negative effects are expounded but I bet they have to do with the possibility of ABUSE- not moderate use (which the rest of the study supports).
And not one word of this negates the study I have provided. -
My point is that alcohol is not good for most people regarding health and dependency(of which no man can predict), and that one should not try to get others to become moderate drinkers or drinkers at all when they never were to begin with. I stating this regarding the medical aspect only - In fact, the main thrust of what I gave is that the alcoholic benefits are sketchy at best and still not for the many.
That is my point, not against Alcohol as a sin, but that one should not do it just cause others want to or that there might be some benefit when the other side of that coin is something even the medical community take great caution with. Know the risks before you entertain the action. You gave benefits, nothing wrong with that.. I gave the other side of the coin.
-
I found this study that provides some interesting facts:
-
What I gave are government Health organizations and Medical Colleges,and researcher who is well know and respected in his field of alcohol study (since he was one of the original arguers for it).
In fact, his very report, speaks to the point of what your quote is reaching toward. Taking a study and misapplying the research, not having all the relevant data. He speaks of the very thing in the article I gave.In fact much of what he gives to help increase is proven false in many reports (like the one I gave).
Is it odd that he states.. it's great, and doctors in our health organizations state otherwise, and our other Medical Colleges as well. I know there are reports out there with positives, but the 'fact' is they, by the medical community at large, are sketchy and problematic. The problem here brother is even when the facts are placed in front of you, you still wont listen or even pause to double check yourself. -
He quotes doctor researchers on heart disease and stroke.
He sites the Harvard Dietary Pyramid. -
Oxford Journal of Medicine
This is from the Oxford Journal of Medicine:
Here is a NATION of moderate drinkers- a NATION of them.
They eat a lot of bad foods but the study suggests that their regular moderate consumption of alcohol keeps their hearts healthy. -
Did you also notice this at the botton of his pages.
-
Alcohol Research and Treatment Center,
Section of Liver Disease and Nutrition,
Bronx VA Medical Center and Mount Sinai
School of Medicine, New York
This is one of the premier Research centers for Alcohol and other medical issues related to and from it.
Here, since you wont take the time to actually read what is given you but choose to willfully ignore medical data presented that refutes your claim from the larger collective medical community.
-
Look Luke, you are missing my point so completely your facing the wrong direction.
My point is that the medical community is so inconsistent in what they understand regarding alcohol that they as a unit will not endorse moderate drinking as a viable health alternative.
It is that simple. Thus I can show you LARGE amounts of data on the subject and you can show me yours and it just proves my point more and more with every post.
THIS IS WHAT I'M SAYING :)
So stop trying to make it as though drinking moderately is good for everyone when the facts are, it isn't regarding everyone, just some - and even then you must be careful due to other facts such as dependency of which the person does not seek but becomes so without trying due to other factors.
And since I have COMPLETELY derailed your thread, I'm sorry. Take it back to what you were saying in the OP :) -
Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
It seems to me the risks of moderate drinking ... whatever that means ... outweigh the benefits:
-
It seems the response to Luke's post is we have already been over this. It seems this is only the second time. It is his right to post whatever he pleases. Besides that, how many of you complain about the 24 hour a day, non stop threads on Calvinism vs free will? That must be into the thousands of threads by now.
-
-
The danger of teetotalism
Isn't there another thread about this currently running? It seems Luke2427 just wants an argument for its own sake.
...And condemning those who abstain is neither fair nor graceful. -
Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
-
The two reasons I cited earlier in this thread for me not drinking were my pattern of drinking and a witness to others. I agree with you comment in this way. I do not feel I have a right to condemn others for moderate drinking because I cannot. One is hard pressed to make a case for abstinence in Scripture. You are correct in the fact that neither side has no right to condemn the other.
My heart wants to reach a point where posts are made by stating positions backed up by Scripture without the words like heresey, pathetic, sad, false doctrine, etc.... In fact, the trap I find myself falling into, especially in the Calvin threads, is getting angered by the use of these words between posters. Once getting involved, I find myself doing the same thing in the back and forth exchange, doing the exact thing that angers me in the first place. Sometimes, as in the Calvin threads, I find myself getting into it by those using those words that are on the same side of election that I am.
That vicious cycle almost reminds me of Paul talking in Romans 7 and 8. Anyway, just wanted to say I appreciate the spirit and content of your posts.
Page 2 of 3