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Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by JonC, May 8, 2022.

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  1. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Ahhhh, there we go…lol. So if you don’t agree your not saved. That’s legalism!
     
    #101 Earth Wind and Fire, May 9, 2022
  2. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Think that could be derived form this quote of his
    An Introduction to Lordship Salvation
    "
    Sixth, Scripture teaches that Jesus is Lord of all, and the faith He demands involves unconditional surrender (Romans 6:17-18; 10:9-10). In other words, Christ does not bestow eternal life on those whose hearts remain set against Him (James 4:6). Surrender to Jesus' lordship is not an addendum to the biblical terms of salvation; the summons to submission is at the heart of the gospel invitation throughout Scripture. In contrast, easy-believism teaches that submission to Christ's supreme authority is not germane to the saving transaction."
     
    #102 JesusFan, May 9, 2022
  3. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Actually no it does not when you look at the context of the bible. All that labor under the load of sin are being called, all those that are in the world that the Holy Spirit is convicting are called. Are you saying that only some people sin or the Holy Spirit does not convict the whole world? Does God not desire that all come to Him in faith? God does not want the wicked to die but would rather that they turn to Him and live?
     
    #103 Silverhair, May 9, 2022
  4. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Ho Hum, same 'ole human logic with no biblical basis.
     
    #104 Reformed1689, May 9, 2022
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  5. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    You agree or disagree with Mac?
     
    #105 Reynolds, May 9, 2022
  6. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with MacArthur but I think he gets misrepresented.
     
    #106 Reformed1689, May 9, 2022
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  7. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Jesus did not say “all that labor under the load of sin”. You have added that based on your theology.

    peace to you
     
    #107 canadyjd, May 9, 2022
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  8. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Do some reading before you jump. Augustine was the one that ran to the far end of the logic pool when he dealt with Pelagius.
     
    #108 Silverhair, May 9, 2022
  9. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
    Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
    Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    Calvinists do not want to let God be God. He has to fit into their theology or else.
     
    #109 Silverhair, May 9, 2022
  10. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    I've done plenty of reading.
     
    #110 Reformed1689, May 9, 2022
  11. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    I agree but that requires that you actually read what the scriptures say and not read into the scriptures what you need to find.
     
    #111 Silverhair, May 9, 2022
  12. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    You keep saying this same old false claim.....
     
    #112 Reformed1689, May 9, 2022
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  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. Otherwise John 3:16-19 would not continue by discussing those who are condemned (unless you are claiming the condemned are limited by being born again as well).
     
    #113 JonC, May 9, 2022
  14. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    It would only be a strawman argument if it were not true.
     
    #114 Silverhair, May 9, 2022
  15. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Based on what? Nonsense.
     
    #115 Reformed1689, May 9, 2022
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  16. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, it was not true.
     
    #116 Reformed1689, May 9, 2022
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  17. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Just because you say it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over …..

    Does not make it true.

    And, once again, I’ll never take advice on understanding scripture from someone who believes…

    “many are saved having never heard the gospel”

    That is the perfect example of someone not trusting God’s word and attempting to force God to conformed to their unbiblical theology.

    peace to you
     
    #117 canadyjd, May 9, 2022
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  18. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I’m not following your logic. Those that don’t believe are “condemned already”.

    That clearly means that prior to belief, all were condemned already.

    That God chose some to become “born again” and “children of God” by His will and His power is a testimony of His grace and mercy.

    peace to you
     
    #118 canadyjd, May 9, 2022
  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    You think you do, but you do not.

    This is evident in your eisejesus of John. Calvin rightly interpreted John 3:16 to refer to the world. He rightly interpreted Christ being the propitiation for the sins of the whole world to mean all men.

    Allowing those passages to be interpreted by Scripture does not require you to alter God's Word (even if you take Scripture for what it says, Calvinism is not contradicted by those two passages).

    What you are doing is trying to make those passages mean Calvinism. So you change the meaning of words.

    But the "world" as used by John is not the "elect in the world".
     
    #119 JonC, May 9, 2022
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    We do understand as men, not as God. Understanding that we are not God is important.
     
    #120 JonC, May 9, 2022
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