In other discussions it seemed impossible for opponents of the biblcial doctrine of justification to stay on topic. Maybe this thread can? :laugh:
The Bible's teaching on the doctrine of Justification is directly and fatally opposed to the papacy's teaching, officially, on the subject. The two are saying complete opposites.
Even the recent Joint Declaration between the papacy and the World Lutheran Federation changes NOTHING to the papacy's perversion of the Bible's teaching on the subject.
Reformed Baptists generally believe noncalvinists are guilty of not adhering biblcial doctrine of justification, so this is more of a calvinism/arminianism issue than it is a catholic/protestant issue.
I'm not sure about that.
Both the cal and arm believe we are
justified by grace through faith...we disagree on how we arrive there.
That's different than works based salvation / grace based salvation.
Webdog is exactly right. I have been around these boards alot, I disagree with webdog on some things, visa vera. But on how a person is just before an All Holy God, we do not disagree.
I agree with you (me being an adherent of Reformed Theology). The hypercalvinist, though, frequently argues that arminians don't adhere to the biblcial doctrine of justification, since a person's actions dictate whether a person is saved or not. It's a common argument.
I'm engaging in discussion. If your intent was to simply engage in Catholic bashing, then I see how you wouldn't like it.
Since you, not I, brought up Catholics, i seems that's exactly what you want to do.
There are several aspects to this question, 'Are Catholics Saved?
The most important is to realize that the Catholic Church does not teach that we earn our salvation by our own efforts, although it does teach that we have to work as a result of our salvation. The same apostle who wrote Galatians also wrote Philippians, wherein Paul says, "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Phil. 2:12).
On other thread, Catholics were attempting to explain their position.
Are you willing to let them do that here?
Or are you simply going to tell them they don't know their church's teaching?
I guarantee you, you will be accused on not knowing your own church's teachings.
I guess a Baptists with anticatholic propensities are better equipped to know what the Catholic Church teaches than a practicing Catholic.
I have no idea what catholic bashing is. If it means to disagree with the papacy and believe their doctrines are heretical, and that the papacy itself is Antichrist, then I guess I am a basher.
Actually, the topic of this thread isn't whether or not Roman Catholics are saved. The subject is the doctrine of Justification, please try to comment upon that subject.
Too vaugue. What do you mean bad things? Like, the papacy is that Man of Sin, Antichrist? Or, the papacy is a heretical institution? Or, papal doctrines are in error?
You are right, I was typing just that as you typed this :laugh:
I'm not "anticatholic" in any stretch...my wife's entire family is in their grip at the moment.
I will also say a baptist indwelt with the Holy Spirit is just as qualified, if not more in understanding the catechism "rule book" of sorts.
My wife (a converted catholic herself) even concedes to this brainwashing having a grip on her understanding of justification and no need to understand the Bible as that is what the church is for (a HIGHLY popular view amongst RCC's).
That is why I stated the majority of those who are true believers either don't understand the churches teaching or go against it.
It's quite cut and dried in the catechism what the church believes.
The statement "the papacy is that Man of Sin, Antichrist" is criticism only of one Catholic -- the pope.
The statement "the papacy is a heretical institution" is a criticism of a thing:
an institution.
The statement "papal doctrines are in error" is a statement about Catholic precepts.
None of these statements qualify as Catholic bashing.
My definition breakdown:
a) "says bad things about Catholics" --Catholics being people, plural,
b) "mainly or just for fun" -- the primary or sole motive is enjoyment.
It does. It is actually against the rules to make personal attacks on these boards.
But we'll see how long your definition holds water when what you actually say isn't "catholic bashing" happens, how many RCs come out and say people are bashing them. lol