From another thread--Has there always been a Doctrine of Preservation? How is it defined? How has it been articulated in orthodox creeds or traditional statements of faith? What did the Church Fathers say on this subject? When do we find it first appearing in systematic theology?
I think this subject should be discussed as it has bearing upon our translations.
The Doctrine of Preservation?
Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by franklinmonroe, Aug 4, 2009.
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Thy word, O Lord, is forever settled in Heaven. Let it be done on earth as it is in Heaven.
Satan attacks Heaven daily in some way. I find the claims the KJV has errors to be limited to scribal errors or printers faults.
The claims made against the KJV are perceived as attacks from satan. This concept alone makes my mind up for me.
God says His word is preserved through the inspired pen of David. Some even dare to deny the existence of an Isareli king named David. This also is perceived as an attack against Heaven and God's word.
When I consider God and his power I cannot come to any other conclusion that His word is forever preserved. I find that preservation in the KJV. I do find very close similarities in some other versions, but not as efficacious as I find in the KJV.
I don't know what the church creeds or the church fathers say on this subject. I find them to be the inventors of systematic theology. I find the Lord to have authority over systematic theology beyond natural comprehension. I also find the previous factions to be somewhat guilty of private interpretations.
I'll stick with the Preserved word of God. -
Thy word, O Lord, is forever settled in Heaven. Let it be done on earth as it is in Heaven.
Satan attacks Heaven daily in some way. I find the claims the NIV has errors to be limited to scribal errors or printers faults.
The claims made against the NIV are perceived as attacks from satan. This concept alone makes my mind up for me.
God says His word is preserved through the inspired pen of David. Some even dare to deny the existence of an Isareli king named David. This also is perceived as an attack against Heaven and God's word.
When I consider God and his power I cannot come to any other conclusion that His word is forever preserved. I find that preservation in the NIV. I do find very close similarities in some other versions, but not as efficacious as I find in the NIV
I don't know what the church creeds or the church fathers say on this subject. I find them to be the inventors of systematic theology. I find the Lord to have authority over systematic theology beyond natural comprehension. I also find the previous factions to be somewhat guilty of private interpretations.
I'll stick with the Preserved word of God. :wavey: -
Quote=Harold Garvey
Thy word, O Lord, is forever settled in Heaven. Let it be done on earth as it is in Heaven.
We are not in Heaven yet. And whatever does this have to do with preservation?
Satan attacks Heaven daily in some way. I find the claims the KJV has errors to be limited to scribal errors or printers faults.
And Satan uses well-meaning but sadly misguided people to do his work sometimes also. His demons also may appear as angels of light, so we are commanded to "test the spirits" to see if they are of God. I find KJVO lacking in this respect.
The claims made against the KJV are perceived as attacks from satan. This concept alone makes my mind up for me.
False claims against ANY version of God's word make up my mind that KJVO is not of God.
God says His word is preserved through the inspired pen of David. Some even dare to deny the existence of an Isareli king named David. This also is perceived as an attack against Heaven and God's word.
No one here on the BVT thread has denied the existence of David to my knowledge- enlighten me if they have.
When I consider God and his power I cannot come to any other conclusion that His word is forever preserved. I find that preservation in the KJV. I do find very close similarities in some other versions, but not as efficacious as I find in the KJV.
His word is preserved in the Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic texts that we are extant today. He never promised to do so in English, Spanish, or any of the other 6,000 or so languages there are in the world today. If He did mean to imply that, then He broke His promise because there are thousands of those languages that have NO copies of God's Word.:eek:
I don't know what the church creeds or the church fathers say on this subject. I find them to be the inventors of systematic theology. I find the Lord to have authority over systematic theology beyond natural comprehension. I also find the previous factions to be somewhat guilty of private interpretations.
KJVO is the king of private interpretations, IMHO.
I'll stick with the Preserved word of God.
So will I- in the ESV, HCSB, NIRV, and any of the other faithful copies of God's Word. Jesus didn't use the KJV, by the way.:smilewinkgrin:
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Only a few are fighting the issue. -
God is GOD, and He preserves/presents HIS word as HE jolly well chooses, whether WE agree with His methods and modes of preservation/presentation or not. I just thank Him every day for making His "Owner's Manual" available to me in the language He gave me.
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There are people in countries with languages that have no Bible translation at all and we argue and complain about having too many translations in English.
Pity really. -
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"Forever Settled" doesn't mean preserved to you. It does to rational thinking individuals.
God said his word is forever settled in Heaven. Only men's lack of submission is the detriment to earth not being more like Heaven.
Last I heard the Great Commission is still in effect, well, except for those who deny the Great Commission.
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I'm glad He gave me the KJV and the many other versions so I can compare and come to the conclusion I'll stick with the KJV!:smilewinkgrin: -
I pity those who have to keep struggling. -
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Hey Harold, please take a day off and let's see if anyone can contribute something related to the OP. Thanks!
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Hodge's Systematic Theology VOL.1 Chapter XI PROVIDENCE. 1. Preservation on page 428 states --
God's works of providence are his most holy, wise, and powerful preserving and governing all his creatures and all their actions. Providence, therefore, includes preservation and government. By preservation is meant that all things out of God owe the continuance of their existence, with all their properties and power, to the will of God. This is clearly the doctrine of the Scriptures. The passages relating to this subject are numerous. They are of different kinds. ... This introduction goes on to list four descriptions of preservation in the Scriptures: in general terms (for example, "By Him all things consist"); regular operations or powers of nature (Psalms 104 & 148, etc.); relating to irrational animals; and finally the rational creatures. But nothing about the preservation of written revelation, inspired words, or the Bible.
Is Hodge's view the traditional understanding of the 'Doctrine of Preservation'? -
I believe that when the scriptures talk of God's words being preserved, that includes the written word - which we have in various translations in English any other language they are translated into. -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
THE GENERAL DOCTRINE OF PRESERVATION
INTRODUCTION: There is a general doctrine of preservation in the Bible. That is, the Bible does teach that God preserves many things, among them His Word, the Bible. (NOTE: This will only be a statement of the general doctrine of preservation, not an exhaustive treatment, since these outlines are on the specific preservation of Scripture.) Let's present the doctrine Scripturally.
I. The Doctrine of Preservation Stated
A. The sovereign God, who created all things, also preserves all things; the entire universe and everything in it are held together only by His power.
1. "Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshipeth thee." (Neh. 9:6)
2. "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or power: all things were created by him, and for him: and he is before all things, and by him all things consist." (Col. 1:16-17)
B. One of God's names is "Preserver" (2 Sam 22:3, Job 7:20).
II. The Objects of His Preservation
A. The saints--"For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off" (Ps. 37:28). "He that keepeth thee will not slumber" (Ps. 121:3b). He will preserve:
1. their lives (Gen. 45:5, Deut. 6:24, Ps. 30:3, 33:19-20)
2. them from trouble and evil (1 Chron. 4:10, Ps. 32:7, 121:7, John 17:15, 2 Thess. 3:3)
3. them from evil men (Ps. 31:20, 41:2, 97:10, 140:1, 141:9)
4. their path (Gen. 28:15-22, Ex. 23:20, Josh. 24:17, 2 Sam. 8:6, Ps. 91:10, 121:8, Prov. 2:8)
5. the fatherless and widows and foreigners (Jer. 49:11, Ps. 146:9)
6. their spirit, soul and body for Heaven--eternal security (John 17:11-12, 1 Thess. 5:23, 2 Tim. 1:12, 1 Peter 1:5, Jude 1)
7. them from sin, according to their prayers (1 Sam. 25:39, Ps. 19:13, 141:3, Jude 24)
8. them from Satan (John 17:15)
9. them from temptation (1 Cor. 10:13, Rev. 3:10)
B. Israel (Josh. 24:17, Jer. 31:10)
C. Jerusalem (Is. 31:5)
D. The animal kingdom (Ps. 36:6, Matt. 10:29)
E. His ordained governments (2 Chron. 6:16, Col. 1:16-17, Rom. 13:1)
F. His own secrets (Matt. 13:35, Rom. 16:25)
G. The heavens and the earth (2 Peter 3:7)
H. His own Word, the Bible (Ps. 12:6-7, etc.)
CONCLUSION: God created everything, and thus has the power to preserve everything. This doctrine should be a great comfort to the Christian. If not even a sparrow can fall to the earth without His knowledge, how much more must He watch over us!
However, there is a responsibility resting on the shoulders of the believer also: he must trust in the Lord. If by his own foolishness the child of God gets into trouble, the Lord may answer his prayer for deliverance. However, how much better it is for the Christian to pray ahead of time to be kept from sin and trouble and evil men! That is a prayer that the Father will gladly answer for the modern saint just as He did for Jabez (1 Chron. 4:10), David and a host of others (Heb. 11). -
So if this be true we all need to learn Latin and then purchase a Latin Vulgate Bible to "perfectly" know the will of God.
HankD -
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