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The Effects Of Calvinism On Scripture

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by MB, Dec 10, 2019.

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  1. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    First, your verse in Luke 13 has nothing to do with humans having the capacity to resist God.

    Second, it is purely God's mercy and grace that keeps us from the flames of hell. We dangle like spiders over an open pit while God holds the thread and determines our fate.
    Pray his mercy and grace remain and that his promises are true. We have no control. Learn that fact and accept it. Find contentment in God's promise.
     
  2. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    You have convinced me that you refuse to accept the truth. Your are resisting God's truth right now and you don't even know it.
    Open your eyes
    .
    Fatalism is false.My Salvation is sealed. I'm sorry to hear you are dangling over a pit hoping God won't let go. For my self my Salvation is secure and will never fail.

    I already belong to Christ and I'm sure of His promises do not need testing. I surrendered my control to Him long ago and I have no doubts of Jesus Christ as my Savior.
    MB
     
  3. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    God wrestles control from us, MB. We do not give it up willingly. In fact, you and I daily fight against God. This is precisely why his grace is new every morning. It is precisely why God tells Paul, "my grace is sufficient for you."

    Your own belligerence against the Sovereignty of God over your life is proof that you fight for control.
     
  4. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    There is no reason for me to believe in God's sovereignty. It is not in scripture that He is only Sovereign. Like I've said many times God is all mighty all powerful no sovereign is anything close to what My God is.My God is above all there is Sovereignty would degrade His greatness. He loose nothingby granting me repentance. He looses nothing by granting me a choice for Salvation.
    MB
     
  5. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    And there we have the answer.
    Despite the Sovereignty of God oozing from every page, word and letter of scripture, you reject it. You make God less than Supreme and less than perfect. The problem lies entirely with your self. You have made yourself your own god. Good luck with that MB. You can claim whatever you wish and whine about what I said, but you deny the Supremacy of God and see God as less than Supreme. The problem is entirely with you.
     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    These verses say nothing about being born again either.
     
  7. Walpole

    Walpole Well-Known Member

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    Nothing you wrote addresses the fact, Judas, before he would "fall away" (Acts 1:25), was explicitly called the following by our Blessed Lord / Scripture:

    - A "disciple" (Mt. 10:1)
    - An "Apostle" (Mt. 10:2-4)
    - "One of the twelve" (Luke 22:47)
    - Sent "to proclaim the Kingdom of God" (Luke 9:2)
    - "Chosen" (John 6:70)
    - A "sheep" (Mt. 10:16)
    - A "friend" (Mt. 26:50)

    ---> You cannot fall away from that which you did not belong. Judas not only resisted grace, he resisted Him who is the source of all grace.
     
  8. Walpole

    Walpole Well-Known Member

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    No, I'm talking about every single human being, who is made in the image and likeness of God. This means man can know and love. For love necessitates free will, since it is an act of the will.

    If man is not free, then he cannot be rewarded for his choices (e.g. faith, hope, charity, etc.), nor can he be punished for his actions. You cannot have a moral universe unless man is free.

    "Why, then, did God give them free will? Because free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having." - C.S. Lewis
     
  9. Walpole

    Walpole Well-Known Member

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    Jesus also calls Peter, Satan. (cf. Mt. 16:23)

    Jesus explicitly calls Peter and Judas sheep.

    "Behold, I am sending you [the twelve] out as sheep in the midst of wolves." (Mt. 10:16)

    "And Jesus said to them [the twelve], 'You will all fall away, for it is written, 'I will strike the shepherd and the sheep will be scattered.'" (Mk 14:27)



    Sometimes sheep, like Judas, get lost and fall away. (Acts 1:25). You cannot fall away from that which you never belonged to.
     
  10. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    God created and called Pharoah to harden his heart. God created and called the Babylonians to overthrow Judah. God created Judas to betray Christ.
    The passages I provided show Jesus Sovereign control over Judas and his betrayal. You have to wrestle with what scripture declares. Your argument is not with me, it is with God.
     
  11. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    Your reference to John 6:70 actually condemns your argument.

    John 6:70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the Twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”

    Notice that Jesus tells Judas, ahead of time, that he is destined to destruction.
    Jesus chose him, not unto salvation, but to fulfill the role of betrayer as God declared.
     
  12. Walpole

    Walpole Well-Known Member

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    No, my argument is with you, not with God. The words of Scripture are plain. For you cannot fall away from that which you never belonged.

    "While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled." - John 17:12

    Judas not only resisted grace, he resisted He who is the source of all grace.
     
  13. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    C.S. Lewis was an apologist, not a theologian. C.S. Lewis was utterly wrong about free will. It was his synergist teachings within the Episcopal Church that lead him down a theological dead end that he could not resolve.
    As an apologist, brilliant. As a theologian, weak.
     
  14. Walpole

    Walpole Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is God, and as such, knows all things from the beginning...

    "But Jesus would not entrust Himself to them, for he know all people. He did not need any testimony about mankind, for He know what was in each person." - John 2:24-25

    Scripture clearly says Judas was chosen by Christ and was one of the twelve. Judas is explicitly called:

    - A "disciple" (Mt. 10:1)
    - An "Apostle" (Mt. 10:2-4)
    - "One of the twelve" (Luke 22:47)
    - Sent "to proclaim the Kingdom of God" (Luke 9:2)
    - "Chosen" (John 6:70)
    - A "sheep" (Mt. 10:16)
    - A "friend" (Mt. 26:50)


    You cannot fall away from that which one never belonged. Judas not only resisted grace, he resisted He who is the source of all grace.
     
  15. Walpole

    Walpole Well-Known Member

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    C.S. Lewis was not Episcopal; he was Anglican.

    Many Evangelicals struggle with Lewis for obvious reasons...
     
  16. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    Judas was chosen to be the betrayer. Your own verses show this.
     
  17. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    Same thing. Look it up.
     
  18. Walpole

    Walpole Well-Known Member

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  19. Walpole

    Walpole Well-Known Member

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    Only in Calvin's supralapsarianism.

    However, Scripture states Judas was chosen as one of the twelve. He was chosen to be a "disciple" (Mt. 10:1), an "Apostle" (Mt. 10:2-4), "to proclaim the Kingdom of God" (Luke 9:2), a "sheep" (Mt. 10:16) a "friend" (Mt. 26:50), and to reign and rule with Christ (Mt. 19:28).

    But, like some sheep, Judas fell away (Acts 1:25). You cannot fall away from that which you never belonged.


    If Calvinism were true, then Judas should be the poster child of this belief. He would have to be the religion’s patron saint, looking down on you now from the glory of heaven.

    The reality is some people believe and end up losing their faith and falling away, as Jesus Himself said happens. (cf. Luke 8:13). In the case of Judas, he not only resisted grace, he resisted Him who is the source of all grace.
     
    #59 Walpole, Dec 11, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
  20. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    Big deal. Same church, just different title.
    Essentially it's Roman Catholic light, which means it's synergist in teachings. Very much similar to free will Arminians like Nazarenes and Pentacostals. Poor theology, but a good apologist.
     
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