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"The Good Pleasure of His Will"

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Alan Gross, May 3, 2019.

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  1. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    0.3a of 50: “The Lord is not Slack concerning His Promise,…but is Long Suffering to US-WARD, not Willing that any” of US-WARD “should Perish”

    The word, "us", is in the following Passage:

    Ephesians 1:3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms.

    4For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love

    5He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will,

    6to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the Beloved One.”

    For God to Passionately Wish Good Things, AND even Salvation itself,
    for some Individual souls of Mankind,
    and then for God to Passionately NOT Wish Good Things,
    OR, even Salvation itself,
    on all Individual souls of Mankind,
    without exception,
    are in no way contrary, to The Doctrine of Election,
    but are Both Perfectly Agreeable to The Doctrine of Election.
    (Paraphrase of Gill)


    The word, "usward", is in the following Passage:

    II Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (KJV)

    The word, "all" is in the following Passage:

    I Timothy 2:3 "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
    4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
    (KJV)

    The word, "all" is in the following Passage:

    I Corinthians 6:12 "All things are lawful unto me....."


    Based upon these and other passages, from a Christ-Centered Bible,
    we can conclude that anyone who dies and goes out into a Christless Eternity
    does so, because

    (The word, "all" is in the following Passage:)

    Romans 3:23 "all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God"

    and every soul would have gone a Christless Eternity,
    were it not for God choosing, "the fewest".

    Deuteronomy 7:7
    "The LORD
    did not set His Love on you,
    nor Choose you,
    because you were
    more in number
    than any people;
    because you were
    the fewest of all people."

    Ezekiel 33:11 "Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD,
    I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked;..."


    We have God Choosing what may appear to be 'a Nation State', in The Old Testament.

    As we have seen, in I Corinthians 6:12, the word "all", can not be pulled out of the Bible and be made to mean, "all without exception", any more than John 3:16 can have the word, 'world', pulled out to mean, 'all people without exception', because GOD SAYS, "LOVE NOT THE WORLD". in I John 2:15.

    I Timothy 2:3 "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
    4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
    (KJV)

    It is O.K. with Bible Interpreters, who Have a Personal Relationship of Salvation WITH THE SAVIOR, Jesus Christ, to understand that Timothy is reiterating the Truth that 'God Did Not Send Jesus to Be The Savior of The Jews, only".

    4 "Who will have all men to be saved," not just, exclusively, His Hebrew 'Chosen People'.

    Those who die without Christ are, "the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:".

    Romans 9:22 "What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:"

    Why? God is God and ALL PEOPLE WOULD GO TO HELL WITHOUT HIM SAVING THEIR SOUL.

    "What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known..."
     
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  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    "The doctrine of Election" is vague. Do you mean God chooses individuals for salvation? That is true. Do you mean God chose individuals before creation for salvation? That is false. 1 Peter 2:9-10 teaches we lived not as a chosen people during our lifetime, and then we lived as a chosen people. Thus our individual election occurred during our lifetime, and not before creation.

    I know you made a ton of other points, but try to defend this one, then if you like we can move on to other disagreements.
    1 Peter 2:9-10
    9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. (NASB)
     
  3. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Basing your 'Salvation' on a misinterpretation of a word like 'all'?

    Isn't that 'vague'.

    They once were lost and now they are Saved
    (is the explanation of the simple portion of your Passage, in Red).

    The Bible Defends what it Teaches just fine.

    There is no 'debate'.
    "... we lived not as a chosen people during our lifetime" are not words that are Stated in 1 Peter 2:9-10 and nothing like that is Taught there.

    Your objection to 'Election' is, '1 Peter 2:9-10
    9 "But you are a chosen race..."

    That's pretty clean...(?)
    Strong work.
     
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  4. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Just so you'll know, your "other disagreements" will be with "the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms. Ephesians 1:3

    4For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world".
     
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  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Hi Alan, how could we be not a people, referring back to not being a chosen people, if we had been chosen before creation.

    The answer is obvious, we were not chosen individually before creation.
    I have no objection to "Election" just your view of it.
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Almost there, stay on target.
     
  7. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, your "other disagreements" will be with "
    the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    The people were not Saved. They were Elected.
    When they were Saved, in Time, they were a Saved People.

    There is no 'debate'. Dunno who came up with that very odd twisting in a knot what is NOT SAID, other than Satan. Don't listen to whoever it was. God Has a Message and you Get that. What people make up is irrelevant to The Bible and what God actually Says and Has Revealed, to Mankind.
    "... we lived not as a chosen people during our lifetime" are not words that are Stated in 1 Peter 2:9-10 and nothing like that is Taught there, or anywhere else in The Bible.

    "I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. Jeremiah 31:3b
     
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  8. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    4For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world".
     
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  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Hi Alan, I see you have not answered the question. You have tried to change it to you were not a saved people. Not what it says.

    Here is the bottom line, 1 Peter 2:9-10 says we lived not as a chosen people before we became people chosen for God's possession. You can say those exact words are not in the text. I have no interest in claiming the passage does not say what it says. How did we live without mercy if we had been chosen individually for salvation before we were created? You will make this to no effect too.

    We are at impasse, Sir.
     
  10. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ???; not:

    11 for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,
    12 it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
    13 Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated. Ro 9
     
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  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    There is no impasse
    There is no impasse at all.
    Alan understands exactly what it says...you...not so much, in fact , not at all.
     
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  12. thomas15

    thomas15 Active Member

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    I agree with Van. Your understanding is, well, how to say this nicely, ok, you have none.
     
  13. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ...all that himhawing and gibberish when you could've provided some scripture...

    ...don't know any?...
     
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  14. thomas15

    thomas15 Active Member

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    Yes I have Bibles and yes I read them.
     
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Pay no attention who use disparagement to hide a lack of argument.
    It is almost funny that you cite a verse having nothing to do with election for salvation. Why not cite 2 Thessalonians 2:13 which says the choice is for salvation, and it is through faith in the truth.

    Denying the obvious shows a weakness in understanding scripture. 1 Peter 2:9-10 shows our election before creation was corporate.
     
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I have yet to meet a defender of your doctrine, who did not use against the man arguments, the refuge of the falsehood purveyor.
    I had high hopes for Alan but alas...
     
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Thanks, I really appreciate those that believe the bible means what it says.
     
  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Alan roasted and toasted your false ideas and never broke a sweat.Can you ever get it right.
    And yet a few years ago you were one of the few and stepped up and began writing a confession of faith when others backed away like cowards.....I do give you credit for that at least.:Wink
     
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  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Ah the false history ploy, long time no see.

    Neither Alan nor you can nullify 1 Peter 2:9-10. To claim it does not say once you were not a [chosen] people, is twaddle.
     
  20. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Van and thomas15 would be allowed to ask a question or say something, if they have it, including, "11Therefore remember that formerly you who are Gentiles in the flesh and called uncircumcised by the so-called circumcision (that done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel,and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world" (Ephesians 2:11,12), if it is applicable. If not, they are not allowed ( by the good pleasure of the BaptistBoard rules, to say that they have a testimony of still being, "not a people"; "separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world".
     
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