The Gospel of YOUR Salvation !

How can addressing your doctrine be called denial?

Show me the righteous in this...


Romans 5:19

King James Version (KJV)

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.


They are made righteous through Christ's obedience, specifically obedience unto death.

You say "He died for Righteous Rom 5:19 !," but that is not what your proof-text states.


God bless.

 

Quite easy, you deny that Christ death made them He died for Righteous Rom 5:19 ! And you deny that Christ death alone reconciled them He died for to God while they were enemies Rom 5:10 your false witness says that only a mere opportunity to be reconciled to God was made available by Christ death, which is a lie!

 

He died to make men righteous, which you are saying yourself:

I'm not denying this, I am denying your teaching they were righteous before being made righteous, that they were saved before they were saved.

You're trying to say two different things.

That they had to be reconciled shows their condition was...lost.

Not saved.

If you want to quote me and show where I am denying anything...please do. Just saying it doesn't change the fact that your doctrine has been shown erroneous.

The saved are not saved until they are saved.

Again...

I have consistently said that Christ's death made sinners righteous, you are the one saying they were already righteous.


God bless.

 

So do you believe that Christ death made righteous all for whom He died? If you do, why do you teach that men Christ died for are born into this world condemned ? That's inconsistency! Also you lied about Christ's death not actually reconciling those He died for to God while they are enemies, to say it only made it possible! Again that is a lie Rom 5:10!

 

Sorry, no. The consistent teaching of Scripture, many verses having been posted already to support that view, is that men are born separated from God and are in need of coming into obedience with the Gospel.

Christ's death makes righteous those that believe on His name, and you will find no support in Scripture for your teaching that those saved are saved before they are saved.

Stop dancing around this point.

Address the Scripture and the points, just as I have responded to your request and shown I understand what your teaching presents.

I didn't lie...that is my point exactly, and the point that conflicts with your doctrine.

You are saying they are not enemies when they are reconciled. lol

Again...

Show me the righteous in this...


Romans 5:19

King James Version (KJV)

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.


They are made righteous through Christ's obedience, specifically obedience unto death.

You say "He died for Righteous Rom 5:19 !," but that is not what your proof-text states.

The conclusion is that before salvation people are enemies, and they are no longer enemies when they are reconciled.

This reconciliation does not occur at conception, or at birth, but at the time when one hears, understands, and obeys the Gospel.

No man is saved apart from the Word of God:


1 Peter 1:23

King James Version (KJV)

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.



God bless.

 

Yeah you are denying it, If Christ's death made them righteous whom He died for, then they are not born condemned, that is a contradiction!

Also if men are born reconciled to God by Christ death, while they are enemies and unbelievers, then again Its inconsistent for them to be born condemned by God as enemies and unbelievers ! Rom 5:10 ! You have lied saying that they are not reconciled to God while being enemies!

 

John 3

King James Version (KJV)

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


Regeneration takes place after one makes a conscious decision to be obedient to the Gospel.

2 Corinthians 5:20

King James Version (KJV)

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.


Shows reconciliation is still pending for some.

I keep saying they are reconciled as enemies, the corollary being...they were not saved before being reconciled.


God bless.

 

Its they were reconciled while enemies by Christ death , how say you they are condemned enemies while enemies? Who is it that condemned them while enemies and unbelievers?

 

Did you really just ask that? lol

I don't say it...God's Word says it:


Colossians 1:21

King James Version (KJV)

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled


Romans 5:10

King James Version (KJV)

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.



Ephesians 2:12

King James Version (KJV)

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:



In this last Paul is not speaking about someone...he is speaking to someone.

Before they were saved they were without Christ and without God.

Now tell me, can you deny that those without Christ and God are not condemned?


John 3:18

King James Version (KJV)

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Not Who, but what...


Romans 5:12-19

King James Version (KJV)

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:


This is the condemnation.


15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.


Verse 12 tells us that death passed upon all men.

Here we see that death was caused by the offense of one, that is...Adam.



16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.


Again we see that the judgment was of condemnation for all men by the offence of Adam.



18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


Again the offence of one brings judgment on all men.


19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.


Again the disobedience of one man "many" were made sinners.

All men are born into condemnation because of Adam's sin.

The only remedy is Christ, and that remedy is only bestowed when one believes on the name of Christ.


God bless.

 

Yeah it is a Who ! It's God who condemns and God who Justifies! Do you believe God condemns those Christ died for and reconciled them to Him by His Death while enemies and unbelievers? Rom 5:10 ?

 

You done it again, stating that those Christ died for are born condemned for Adam's sins, whereas Scripture says that those Christ died for are born as enemies, but reconciled to God by Christ death Rom 5:10 ! You actually teach that Christ death wasn't the remedy!

 

You realize you are once again saying two different things, right?

And nowhere did I say that people are born condemned for Adam's sins, but that sin and death passed to all men because of Adam's disobedience.

You might see that if you read the posts and lose your refusal to be wrong about this.

But that is the problem with the OP...it makes two distinctly different conclusions, saying that the gathering was foretold, and that the gathering was always going on.

If you actually quoted what I said you would not misquote me.

You are a very lazy person, my friend.


God bless.

 

You can phrase it any way you like, Those Christ died for are born as enemies, sinners, unbeliever s , ungodly, rebellious ect, yet still reconciled to God by the Death of Christ His Son! That condemnation of Rom 5:18 is not charged to them! If it had been they cannot be reconciled to God as enemies Rom 5:10 !

 

Christ died for all. See the opportunity in this:


John 1:29

King James Version (KJV)

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


The dispute here is not whether Christ made reconciliation, but when that is reckoned on the behalf of the individual:


Romans 4:23-25

King James Version (KJV)

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.


Not one single solitary Old Testament Saint believed on Christ Jesus' death and resurrection.

Not one.

Not even John the Baptist, who was used of God to prophesy the Lamb of God.


Matthew 11:1-3

King James Version (KJV)

1 And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities.

2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,

3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?



And not one single solitary soul believes on Christ prior to hearing the Gospel and having the Comforter enlighten them to it's truth, by which they can yield in obedience...or reject Christ.

Not one.


God bless.

 

The all Christ died for, they are born into this world as enemies, but even then they are reconciled to God by His Death Rom 5:10 ! That does not apply to all without exception, because some as enemies are already condemned! So Christ couldn't have died for them!

 

Then John the Baptist had it wrong? Christ was not the Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world?


God bless.

 

That's your choice to say John was wrong! I'm saying that those who Christ died for are reconciled to God by His Death while they are enemies and unbelievers, Rom 5:10 and you deny it and say that they are not reconciled to God as enemies and unbelievers and that they are condemned by God !

 

You are the one saying John is wrong if you deny that the Lord died for the world...not just the Elect. That only the Elect are saved is a no-brainer. Like being at the beach and saying only the ones swimming are the ones in the water.

Every man has opportunity to be saved, because Christ is the Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world. This is a general statement that speaks of the Sufficiency of the Cross, not that all people will be saved, and definitely not that only the Elect have opportunity to be saved.

Now you are, lol.

You create a false dichotomy not supported by Scripture. All men are born under condemnation and that has been showed over and over.

You deny this in your next statement:

You're just not being honest about what you are saying. This...

...is not what you are saying, you have consistently tried to teach that people are born already saved, which denies so much of Scripture it boggles the mind that you would continue to try to save face instead if just admitting making one of the silliest statements I think I have ever heard.

;)


God bless.

 

darrell

Ok show me where I stated that John was wrong ? I cant remember bringing up Jn 1:29 !

 

darrell

Of course I am being honest, the scripture is Honest, I am declaring scripture. Those Christ died for, by His death alone, are reconciled to God, even while being enemies, sinners, unbelievers, not by anything they did or believed, but by the Death of God's Son ! Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we[Believers] were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The word reconciled here is in the aorist past tense, while "were enemies is in the present tense, so Paul is saying of believers, while we were being hostile and opposing (God) in the mind, we were even then reconciled to God, By His Sons Death !

Now you deny this Gracious Truth, and state they were not reconciled to God by His Sons Death, but they were condemned by God, which totally repudiates the Merits of Christ's Death for them ! Thats Blasphemy !