The Great Apostasy

Thank you for your cordial response. The reason why I asked was because I thought you were amill, but you seem to be closer inline with the historic premills, if I understand that doctrine correctly.


Though I am amill, wherever my Lord, Master, Saviour, God, is going to reign for eternity, I'll be there!! By His Grace, Love, Mercy, shed blood, Living water, He has made me ready to answer when He calls my name! Glory to the Lamb of God!! Hallelujah!!! These are shouting words!!!

 

:applause: Willis..I thought when i moved away from dispy..I thought I was amill also:laugh: But then i found out some of the teaching that I was reading was post-mill which i used to think was just wrong....I am taking another look. Ladd and spurgeon were historic premills....
at this point i am an endtime MUTT:laugh:

Exactly Willis!!!!

 

The reason why I am amill is because I see this world being destroyed. When Jesus comes to seperate the Wheat/tares, the Wheat go with Christ, and the tares are cast into the lake of fire. IOW, there will be heaven and the lake, and nothing else.

 

Join the crowd. I'm a conglomeration of several views.

 

Iconoclast posted this:

Now hear this!


Brothers KYR and Iconoclast are the BB's version of "MUTT and Jeff"!!

J/K Brothers........


:love2: :love2:

 

I have had considerable contact with the Catholic third world, having just returned from 6 years abroad. I have many personal experiences and observations.

Essentially, their position is that we are in God's Kingdom, but the "seat of power" (so to speak) has shifted from David's Throne in Jerusalem
to the Apostle Peters "throne" in Rome. The Catholic church views itself as that mustard seed that will grow and spread and fill the whole world.
The Lord's Supper is shared world-wide daily to Jews and Gentiles alike who are partakers.

This theological stance of supremacy over the earth is justifiable and probably accounts for the fact that the Holy Catholic Church is growing significantly
world-wide and that many former protestants are returning to Rome. I can understand how many are attracted to the "clarity" and "stability" of the Catholic Church.

Of course, all of this completely ignores the fact that fundamentalist Islam is growing even faster and bodes of massive historical movements of ancient history.

I have heard some say the the God Allah is the same as the God YHWH, but I do not see any trend toward "accommodation" by the Islamic World toward the God of Christianity.

 

types/foreshadowing/partial fulfillments =that all point towards a full fullfilment in the end of the end days!

 

historic pre Mil emphasised that Jesus will be returning in end of theis era, to set up a physical/earthy kingdom upon the earth!

 

I don't think this is any reason to subscribe to an early date for Revelation.
The whole of Ezekiel's temple was measured (Ezek 40ff) and that temple was not in existence at that time, nor indeed at any time since.

Amen! :thumbs:

Steve

 

This temple will never be in existence. Or are we to believe that there will once again be circumcision (Ezek. 44:7, 9) and sacrifices for sin?

 

I do not believe that we shall ever see Ezekiel's temple in existence. You have missed my point. I was saying that neither the Ezekiel's not John's temple needed to have a physical existence in order to be measured.

Steve

 

Depends if you spiritualise the passage, or take it in the plain and literal meaning intended for the text!

 

what keeps me from NOT being a Dispy is the truth so evident in the Bible that jesus is NOT yet ruling over this earth as spoken of in the scriptures, as he must rule/reign upon the earth, and muststill bring fulness of the Kingdom unto earth in order to have this world no longer under the world system of satan!

 

He rules over His enemies right now. 1 cor 15

What verse or verses say that His rule is from earth....and not from heaven???

15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

25And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

26And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

27And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

28But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
29Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.


JF...earlier on this thread I asked ACF to consider and respond to these verses.....I now ask you the same thing ...about Joel 2, Joel 3, Hebrews 12 wnat do you make of this????

 

Well, I am glad that I was wrong about you on this point, and that I was the one mistaken. We both believe that Ezekiel Temple will never be, nor never was, built. Good.

But your application of this to not valid. The passage in Revelation that says for John to measure the Temple clearly assumes that there is a Temple. Added to this is John's Gospel (which futurists likewise date well after the destruction of Jerusalem) which has a reference (John 5, I think) to a pool as if it was still standing, using present tense.

I stand by my contention. It fits best with both the texts and history.

 

You mean circumcision does not happen anymore? Even among Gentiles?

Why would we assume it ridiculous to think of National Israel (Restored) could not again sacrifice in memorial, even as we partake of Communion in memorial?

Does scripture teach that Jews are to forsake their heritage?

Consider:


Acts 21

King James Version (KJV)


20And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

21And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

22What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.

23Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

24Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

25As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

26Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.



Acts 18:18

King James Version (KJV)


18And Paul after this tarried there yet a good while, and then took his leave of the brethren, and sailed thence into Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila; having shorn his head in Cenchrea: for he had a vow.




And one more for consideration:




Acts 16

King James Version (KJV)


Acts 16

1Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but his father was a Greek:

2Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium.

3Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.



Now, if Paul could circumcise, and offer sacrifice in the first century...why would it be thought strange that this could happen in the Millennial Kingdom?

God bless.

 

The heritage of The Jews is Christ. Their forsaking Christ - those that did - leaves them without the Foundation for all other blessings.

The fact that circumcision happens is beside the point as well as beside the scope of the texts under consideration.

"Ridiculous" is not a word I used, nor would use. "Tragic" is more like it.

In Scripture there is no national Israel, nor memorial rites, to come. On the contrary we have explicit statements (John 4 and elsewhere) that places and rites no longer are important. God is Spirit. We worship in Spirit and in truth. The circumcision of believers (Paul wrote this to both Jews an gentiles) is of the heart. According to Gal. circumcision is not only of no use, but is contrary to the spirit of grace of this age to come,the Gospel age.

Sorry, this is all I have time for right now. Hopefully I can answer more from your post later.

take care.

 

Look forward to it.

God bless.

 

God kept a faithful remnant unto Himself in NT times, Jews that were"Of isreal"

God swore eternal Covenant between them and Himself....

 

So you would see Ezekiel 37/isaiah 66/Malachi 4 already fulfilled?