Sure, when he is misquoted, deliberately or ignorantly. The MSM campaigned viciously against him and people still repeat the distortions they created.
The Greatest American
Discussion in 'History Forum' started by saturneptune, Dec 16, 2006.
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Roger Williams
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I have a nice collection of various biographies of Washington, and what he accomplished puts him in that category. Next to him, Franklin's diplomatic service and political leadership puts him right up there next to GW. Jefferson is in the same category, and among modern Americans, FDR.
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PastorGreg MemberSite Supporter
Having read my original post in this thread, I realized that I hadn't properly read the OP. The greatest positive impact - Washington, Jefferson, John Adams for the founding documents, etc. (Obviously others involved in that process). beyond that - Jonathan Edwards, Adoniram Judson, Abigail Adams. Would have to include MacArthur and others who have called the American church back to exposition of Scripture and Biblical counseling - this is a huge poistive impact.
Greatest negatvie impact - Hamilton for the national bank, Lincoln, TR, FDR and every President since for their total disregard of the Consititution. -
You would know all about how that feels, right? :tongue3: :laugh:
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AMEN!!! to Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson.
Anyone who has studied the life of him would really understand how great this man was.
For example.....He loved to teach Sunday School to little children before the war. The interesting thing is, which is against popular so-called history, the children he taught were little black children, mostly slave children. He taught them to read, write and most importantly about Jesus.
I encourage anyone who is a fan of history to read more about this amazing man and watch the movie Gods and Generals. It is about him.:godisgood: -
But he did fight to keep those black children in bondage, right? -
No, he did not. The war had nothing to do with slavery. Study the true history and you will see. Not the "politcally correct" version we are feed in public schools.
"There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil" - General Robert E. Lee
" We did not go to war to end slavery, but to put the flag back, and to act differently at this moment would, I have no doubt, not only weaken our cause but smack of bad faith"- Abraham Lincoln
"I will say that, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the black and white races"-Abraham Lincoln
"I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so." -Abraham Lincoln
I could go on and on with soooo many quotes that are documented that are left out of our public history books. When you start really digging and the truth speaks to you, it is very interesting.
Remember, Satan is the prince of the air, but Jesus Our Lord is Lord of all!!:jesus: -
I was going to say Thomas J. "Stonewall" Jackson, but others said it first. He was a Christian, first and foremost, which is what I most admire about him most. He was a Presbyterian to boot. He was better general than his opponents, and better than most of his fellow Southerners. He lost one standing fight, Kernstown in the Shenandoah Valley in March of 1862. But in every other field he owned his enemy. The Valley campaign put him in the class of Alexander the great, Napoleon, and the other great generals through history. His defensive actions at Second Manassas and Antietam, against forces twice the size of his, are almost unheard of. Then the flank atack at Chancellorsville, a true military beauty, still studied today. Too bad, that was the last one. I often wonder what would have happened if he would have lived. Lee was a great general, Longstreet and Jackson made him almost unbeatable. My vote is for Stonewall.
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I would have to say Washington or Jefferson. Lincoln didnt intend to free the slaves in the beginning. He sent alot of Americans to their early grave. He allowed Sherman to murder,rape and wage war on a innocent civilian population in the south. MLK was no angel. He had fidelity issues. I cant wait till his files are made public.
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Scarlett O. ModeratorModeratorOh? And what secret things do you know about him that the rest of America does not know? :flower:
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Scarlett O. ModeratorModeratorJust one more thing, if you don't mind. It's not that I am a huge fan of MLK, but I do admire him. He wouldn't make it to my list of top 10 great Americans, maybe my top 25.
Your assertion that MLK had fidelity issues is, of course, true. However if your primary concern for keeping him off of the list of great Americans is his moral fiber (or lack thereof), then you are going to have to take the two men that you voted for off the list, too.
In fact, if we were to stop the construction of the MLK Memorial in Washington, D.C. for his adultery and fornication, then we are going to have to forgo the WWII Memorial.
Remember all those European babies left behind in France, Germany, et.al. that had American dads? Have you ever seen those government-sponsered training films on the History Channel where some of our WWII soldiers were issued condoms and taught to remember a very sexually explict "motto" as not to forget to wear one during their tour of Europe and the Pacific? In fact, if moral perfection and sexual purity is a requirement for being honored as a great American, then we might as well tear down the Vietnam Memorial while we are at it. I have listened to testimony on television of men who reported that many American men were offered penicillin shots to prevent STD's while in Vietnam and some took them. And let's don't forget about all of those babies left behind who had American dads.
I am being facetious, of course. I am a great admirer of that Greatest Generation who in their fight for liberty literally saved the world. And even though the Vietnam era was so tormenting to so many people, I greatly respect and admire any man who served America during that very tragic time.
They all deserve more than just a memorial. A simple memorial doesn't do any of them justice.
....and I simply choose not to think about any immorality surrounded in those times by those people. Is my head in the sand...maybe, but that's how I choose to think.
And if MLK's immorality is going to erase his place in history as a history-maker and an agent of positive change and enlightened thinking, the we are going ot have to take a bulldozer......make that several bulldozers.......to D.C. and completely demolish the Washington Monument, the Jefferson Memorial, the Roosevelt Memorial, and we are going to have to take a big water hose and douse out that that eternal flame of JFK in Arlington.
If we are going to allow a person's immoral sexual nature to prevent them from being honored as an American, then, I'm afraid that no one is going to be honored....
.....with the one exception of the other man you protested. Abraham Lincoln. -
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Haha, you can not be serious. I know there were other issues but slavery was the MAJOR issue. With out the souths instence that they keep there slaves there would have been no war.
And just because you quote Lincon saying that he does want to bring about the equallity of races does not mean that the war was not about slavery.
Lincon may not have been as advanced as we have and are becoming when thinking about race but he was much more advanced then the leaders in the south.
Why dont you tell me what the war was about. -
May a British guy step into the conversation?
My understanding, from what I have read and discussed, is the issue was state rights. Bringing the slavery issue to the fore was a political move by Lincoln.
Slavery played a part, but not as much as some would have us think.
I am open to being wrong here, but this is how I see it. :) -
Scarlett O. ModeratorModerator
mnw, you are correct.
The fight was over state rights vs. federal rights. Many, many Confederate soldiers who fought in the Civil War and the families representing them did not even own slaves.
The idea of a federal government completely overshadowing the state government or even the individual rights was a fight that was a long time in coming and to some extent, is still being played out today. -
Yup. The states rights to keep slaves! The federal goverment wanted to abolish the practice of slavery and the states seen this as the federal goverment steping on their rights to decide for themselfs if they should have slaves or not.
You can not take slavery out of the war because that is what the fight was over. Now saying it was "states rights" does not make the south sound like the "bad guys" The but fact is the war was over "states rights to own slaves"
If I am wrong name some of the other rights the states feel were being taken from them. -
Scarlett O. ModeratorModeratorNope. The right for a state to secede from the Union. The Union considered the southern states who seceded as committing treason. You might also consider the right for economic independence. The right to govern oneself.
"The right to govern comes from the consent of those governed." You might want to look that up and see where it came from.
You are making a common error that the Union wanted to abolish slavery from a moral standpoint. Go back in your history books and study about the Missouri Compromise and the Kansas-Nebraska Act and see exactly why slavery was an issue in the first place. It was about issues remotely removed from morality. The people in the south, the relatively few rich farmers who needed slavery, wanted slavery in new territories to keep the south economically alive. With that being said, slavery was hideously ugly and no reason or logic could ever justify it, not even keeping food on your child's plate.
Northern politicans wanted to keep the new territories as free territories, thereby weakening any strength the southern states had in their agricultural society. The issue was all about control of the country.
Slavery was an issue. A pawn in an ugly game of economic superiority and cultural independence and a state's right to secede from union.
Your whole morally superior attitude here is the sole reason I even posted a repy to you. Because of the ignorant belief the people of the south were, as you say, "the bad guys", and the people of the north were the morally superior and innocent people who only out of intellectual enlightenment and philanthropy wanted to freedom for black people, it's no wonder that people are still arguing about the Civil War to this day.
I believe that I just did that. -
The reason they wanted to secede. Slavery.
I never said that the Norths motives were purly moral. They may have had other motives. I dont know, but it was over slavery.
Slavery was THE issue, the reason the south wanted to secede.
Dont read my posts as being "morally superior" because that is not how I am meaning them to be. First I am from the West, so I dont realy have a stake in either side. Second I am not calling you a bad guy because you are from the south. Nobody today was alive when these issues were dealt with. I just dont think we should be defending those who were around and fought on the wrong side of the issue. People here are naming confederate generals as being their heros. I just cant see that beings they fought for a goverment whos main purpose was to keep slavery and start their own country so they could keep slavery. That is not to say the North was spotless, but they were on the right side of the issue in this instance.
Pretty much every issue you named boiles down to slavery. -
Lincoln did not set out to abolish slavery, but he did set out to make it illegal in states where it did not already exist (describing this policy as the course for ultimate extinction of slavery).
The issue of slavery in the territories made the war unavoidable. The south was too reliant on slave labor to compete economically with the north. It boiled down to a states right to establish its own laws above that of federal rule (slavery being the key issue) and the war was ultimately started by the issue of a states right to secession. -
So beings that the key issue was slavery, is it right to hold up the confederate generals as heros.
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