You make two very valid points Amy and there is no Biblical answer Ryan can give. That is the reason SDA must be classified as a cult!
The Heresy of Investigative Judgment
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by OldRegular, Dec 7, 2013.
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in Is 53:10 Christ is our sin offering.
in 1John 2:2 "Christ is the ATONING SACRIFICE for our sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" NIV - and that "atoning sacrifice" was completed once for all at the cross.
But to fully understand the Bible statement on Atonement - one has to pay attention to a "lot of Bible details".
I think we all know that by now.
in Christ,
Bob -
Since the process of ignoring Bible details could resume again at any moment --- a reminder of the "Details" in Daniel 7 concerning the Pre-Advent Investigative Judgment. (Which of course is the subject and title of the thread)
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The pre-advent Investigative Judgment in heaven - is shown in Daniel 7
Investigative: as in -- it is a judgement based on data/evidence contained in books of record. "the court sat and the books were opened" - this is highlighted in my quote
Pre-Advent: It is shown in the chapter to take place after the Roman Empire falls, after the 1260 years dark ages of persecution of the saints that follows the fall of Pagan Rome at some point - but before the 2nd coming of Christ and the setting up of Christ's Kingdom.
It is also shown in the text - to include the saints as subjects of the judgment for "judgment is passed in favor of the saints". also highlighted in the text - in the quote.
Hence my repeated appeal to "Bible details".
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You are apparently unable to have a 2 way discussion on a doctrine of your own church, which is the subject of this thread. -
Ok - so I thought you were asking about the Atonement at the cross.
Were you talking about "something else"??
Because... details matter. And I hope we can both agree on that.
In my post I point to statements actually made "in the Bible" on this subject - and I am sure you would not want to turn a blind eye to the "Bible details" just as I would not want to do it.
in Christ,
Bob -
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I agree with this statement --
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I Prefer the Bible AND the Words IN the Bible.
in Is 53:10 Christ is our sin offering.
in 1John 2:2 "Christ is the ATONING SACRIFICE for our sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" NIV - and that "atoning sacrifice" was completed once for all at the cross.
But to fully understand the Bible statement on Atonement - one has to pay attention to a "lot of Bible details".
I think we all know that by now.
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And I agree that Daniel 7 describes the "Pre-Advent" Investigative Judgment as we can all see in the "Bible details".
And I agree that Lev 16 describes the full Bible scope of Atonement when it defines for us the "Day of Atonement" with Christ as both sin offering and as High Priest.
in Christ,
Bob -
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IMO, the Bibliotechster just chooses to leave periodically.
When Roberto finally has had enough, will you say he also got kicked off?
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"The problem" with avoiding all the Bible details in the answers I give to the questions regarding the Seventh-day Adventist acceptance of Daniel 7 and the Investigative Judgment - is that you "miss all the answers" I am giving.
Then inexplicably you can post that - you see no answers - since you are carefully avoiding those answers (presumably because they include the text of Daniel 7).
Here they are "again" --
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The pre-advent Investigative Judgment in heaven - is shown in Daniel 7 (AND is accepted by the Seventh-day Adventist Church).
Investigative: as in -- it is a judgement based on data/evidence contained in books of record. "the court sat and the books were opened" - this is highlighted in my quote
Pre-Advent: It is shown in the chapter to take place after the Roman Empire falls, after the 1260 years dark ages of persecution of the saints that follows the fall of Pagan Rome at some point - but before the 2nd coming of Christ and the setting up of Christ's Kingdom.
It is also shown in the text - to include the saints as subjects of the judgment for "judgment is passed in favor of the saints". also highlighted in the text - in the quote.
Hence my repeated appeal to "Bible details".
Daniel 7 for those who prefer - the actual Bible.
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I will post the text "again" because it appears that the instict to "Bible-avoidance" by those who oppose this topic is a hard habit break.
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The pre-advent Judgment of Dan 7 - based on
investigating the records/books of heaven.
Dan 7
“I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 “A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.
...
13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 “And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.
...
21 I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them
22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.
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(As already posted a few times by now) --
Responses to the actual answers given -- welcomed since this one is from "page 1".
In fact anyone with an actual Bible statement to make about the answers posted on Pages 1 and 2 -- I extend a welcome to you.
in Christ,
Bob -
wrong thread - post moved
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There can be no discussion with you. Dusting my feet now. -
I point out that I have been answering that question non-stop and showing among other places - where it is found in Daniel 7AND I INClUDE THE EXPLINATION of where the teaching is found IN THE TEXT with that post.
Inexplicably you respond with
So anyone who remains - can see it.
in Christ,
Bob -
But if you simply don't want to read the chapter or the explanation pointing to details in the actual chapter - that is fine too. Perhaps you will find some other topic interesting enough to read the answers posted for the various points of view.
in Christ,
Bob -
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I quoted Daniel 7 again - probably looks like pretty strange text to someone not accustomed to paying attention to Bible details as I think you are pointing out with our "once upon a time" preface suggestion for the chapter being posted.
In any case - for those who are Bible students - the point remains.
in Christ,
Bob -
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Did I miss something in my own post??
Or were you thinking that Ellen White wrote Daniel 7?
The Seventh-day Adventist church preaches the pre-advent Investigative Judgment doctrine found in Daniel 7 (among other Bible texts).
In Daniel 7 we notice some "Bible details". I will list them again because these are key to the Adventist doctrine by that name.
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The pre-advent Investigative Judgment in heaven - is shown in Daniel 7 (AND is accepted by the Seventh-day Adventist Church).
Investigative: as in -- it is a judgement based on data/evidence contained in books of record. "the court sat and the books were opened" - this is highlighted in my quote of Daniel 7.
Pre-Advent: It is shown in the chapter to take place after the Roman Empire falls, after the 1260 years dark ages of persecution of the saints that follows the fall of Pagan Rome at some point - but before the 2nd coming of Christ and the setting up of Christ's Kingdom.
It is also shown in the text - to include the saints as subjects of the judgment for "judgment is passed in favor of the saints". also highlighted in the text - in the quote of Daniel 7.
Turns out that avoiding these "Bible details" in Daniel 7 is not the grand solution some people have imagined.
in Christ,
Bob
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