I think I have been clear where I believe you and @Martin Marprelate are wrong. If you wish to challenge my view, it is on another thread.
But I do agree that people often focus on different aspects of Scripture - sometimes at the expense of others.[/QUOTE]
I do agree that there can be different ways to view the atonement, but there has to be some elemet of PST in it to be biblical.
The Meanings of 'For'
Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Martin Marprelate, Dec 5, 2017.
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You and I seem to have the exact same difficulty - that of reconciling the contextual framework your theory presupposes with Scripture. -
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
All analogies break down if pressed too far. If one (best not to personalize this) dies fighting in the armed forces, one is not usually fighting for one's wife and/or family, one is fighting to defend one's country or, more likely, to promote its interests and/or influence.
If one was actually fighting for one's wife and died doing it, it would be because there was a mortal threat to her. Therefore one would be dying on her behalf, and, if successful, be dying instead of her. Of course, one might die fighting unsuccessfully and one's wife still die. This is not the case with Christ. With His blood He has purchased men and women for God (Revelation 5:9). How has He done that? By paying the penalty for their sins in full and drinking the cup of the Lord's wrath. Penal Substitution. -
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
For those who are interested in a proper defense and proper view of penal substitutionary atonement see the following link where Dr. William Lane Craig provides about 50 short 5 minute lessons on this subject.
Dr. Craig Lewis in my study Part 1 Penal Substitutionary atonement - Saferbrowser Yahoo Video Search Results
The righteousness of Christ does not satisfy God's holiness against sin, if it did, then the cross could have been avoided altogether. Wrath against sin is Biblically defined as death as death is the wages of sin. Punishment against sin is defined as death. So Christ suffered the WRATH of God toward us due to our sin and Christ was PUNISHED by God for our sins. Those who deny this simply do not understand the Biblical view of atonement. -
I understand PSA, and reject its base assumption. Based on your arguments, it does not seem that you fully understand the arguments against your view. -
Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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You asked how God ransomed us from the law of sin and death and made us alive to the law of God.
See, brother, that you are not taken captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men. God delivered us by forgiving our transgressions, having canceled out the debt of the law which was against us, having taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith.
Is this so foreign to you? God gives us new hearts, new spirits. He puts His Spirit in us. We die to our old selves, to sin. We live in Him. We die to the law of sin and death and are made alive in Christ. -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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