You may want to sit down.:)
But, seriously, I am looking for an answer to this too. Either from TCassidy or Mr. Cognitive Dissonance.
The Mediatorial Kingdom
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Covenanter, Nov 24, 2017.
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asterisktom Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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prophecy70 wrote:
Luke 17:20
Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed,
Hey, prophecy expert, why didn't you summarize from vs. 20 to the end of the chapter? (Get the context!) -
Luke 17:20 Being asked by the Pharisees when God’s Kingdom would come, he answered them, “God’s Kingdom doesn’t come with observation."
First, who is He talking to. Hint: Pharisees - unbelievers.
Second, He says with observation - With scrupulous and attentive looking for it, or with such an appearance so as to “attract” observation - that is, with pomp, majesty, splendor, which is what the Pharisees were all about, empty pomp, splendor, formalism.
Now the immediate following context.
Luke 17:21 neither will they say, ‘Look, here!’ or, ‘Look, there!’ for behold, God’s Kingdom is within you.”
He uses their own unbelief against them. They say the Kingdom will come with great pomp and ceremony, but He says "No, nobody will say look, here, or look there" pointing to a great pompous religious activity.
He then corrects their error. "God's Kingdom is within you."
The Greek word translated "within you" is εντος. (Within you or Among you.)
There are two possible interpretations.
1. The reign of God is “within you, "in the heart.” It does not come with pomp and splendor, like the reign of earthy kings, who can only control the external actions of their subjects, but it reigns in the heart by the law of God; it sets up its dominion over the will, and brings every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ.
Or
2. It may mean the Kingdom is “now among you.” The Messiah has come. The Kingdom is present in the Person of the King. Most bible scholars at this time lean to this interpretation.
I think it could be either but lean towards the second. -
prophecy70 Active Member
There are some, who take this as the End of the Old covenant and the coming of the kingdom, which is the new covenant. Those who do not split the discourse into two parts.
And Some who see the final Judgment day here.
Tell me in YOUR contextual explanation is this before or after a "future millennium"?
And then find me the Contextual support of a Physical Literal Millennium where Christ sits on an earthy throne reigning with a million souls. -
prophecy70 Active Member
I agree with what you just said 100%
the only difference is, I just do not see the need nor support for a future literal millennium where he has to sit on a earthy throne.
I believe he is fulfilling the prophecy now. -
Covenanter Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
During is earthly ministry ;
and in the future, during the millennium..
NOT during the present Gospel age.
Heb. 9:11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Rev. 1:4 John,
To the seven churches in the province of Asia:
Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father – to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
Notice the present tenses in those references:
He is the Mediator of the new covenant
Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
There can be no argument. Jesus is King & Mediator in the present Gospel age. To deny that is to deny the Gospel.
And, in the resurrection when the Lord Jesus Christ is with us in glory, will we need a mediator? Surely his priestly work of redemption was finished at Calvary, we are presently living under the New Covenant in his present Kingdom:
Col. 1:13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.
Any doctrine of a/the Mediatorial Kingdom MUST focus on Jesus' present reign & mediatorial work in the present Gospel age, NOT some supposed future millennial kingdom. -
Surely we could plot out a Venn diagram and see differences between the Judges time as mediators and Christ's, for example. It is not a slight to our Savior or denial of His role as mediator to explore this. -
Covenanter Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Look at TC's definitions - he specifically excludes the present Gospel age from Christ's Mediatorial Kingdom.
Then look at the Scriptures relating to Christ our New Covenant Mediator. -
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Covenanter Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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David Kent Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Is there any biblical authority to say the times of the gentiles began in Babylonian times?
As far as I can ascertain this teaching began in the 19th century. It is based on the seven times that passed over Nebuchadnezzar, Seven times being 2520 days or 2520 years which would run out in the 20th century. (H Grattan Guinness and others.) -
This is exactly why I think you have no credibility at all regarding the bible or theology. You seem to operate on a Readers Digest Condensed Version of bible and theology. And even then you have torn out 90% of the pages!:rolleyes: -
It began when Israel/Judah was dominated by the gentile nations and will only end with the consummation of the ages, when Israel will be ruled by her Messiah, and not dominated by the gentile nations any more. -
Can this:
Luke 17:21 neither will they say, ‘Look, here!’ or, ‘Look, there!’ for behold, God’s Kingdom is within you.”
be understood as this:
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except any one be born of water and of Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
That the kingdom of God can be, of flesh born man, if he also is born, of Spirit? -
Covenanter Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Often, of course, there are implications & questions arising about what is written, which is why we are discussing these things on the forum.
You, in two posts stated what the Mediatorial Kingdom was, & gave a link. Your posts excluded the Gospel age from the Mediatorial Kingdom.
So I questioned your teaching as false -
Essex is denying that unity to the extent that Christ's office as king & mediator for his redeemed people is in abeyance at present, & will only apply in a future millennial kingdom when he is reigning in person.
That is NOT Scriptural doctrine. -
David Kent Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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David Kent Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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prophecy70 wrote:
And then find me the Contextual support of a Physical Literal Millennium where Christ sits on an earthy throne reigning with a million souls.
I will defer to TCassidy. He knows more about this subject, than both of us combined! -
prophecy70 Active Member
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