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Featured The Mystery of the Gospel of Jesus Christ 2

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Darrell C, Mar 1, 2018.

  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    None of that has anything to do with discovering what the mystery was. Scripture is clear, definitive, and without question:

    Eph 3:4 When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ,
    Eph 3:5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.
    Eph 3:6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

    Do you get that! Scripture says the "mystery is". Scripture tells us in one short passage what the mystery is.


    There is no scripture that says the mystery is......anything else except the Gentile inclusion. This passage of scripture trumps your philosophy and twisting of other scripture.

    Again, not sure why all this needs explaining.
     
  2. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    I haven't denied that. The Mystery is not that there would come a day when Messiah would arrive as promised by God, the Mystery is that He would be God manifest in the flesh, die to redeem men spiritually and eternally, rather than physically (which can be seen as the primary understanding of men in Christ's day, including the disciples), and that He would immerse men into Himself in eternal union.


    Colossians 1:24-27
    King James Version (KJV)

    24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

    25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

    26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

    27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:



    That Paul had been given the administration of the Gospel to the Gentiles does not nullify what he states here...that the Mystery has been hid from Ages and from Generations, but is now made manifest, not to Gentiles...

    ...but to His Saints.

    He would make known the riches of the Mystery among the Gentiles which is, not that Gentiles would be saved (because that knowledge was prophesied in the Old Testament as well), but is...Christ in you, the hope of glory (which is everlasting relationship with God in glorified bodies).

    He makes that point here as well...


    Ephesians 5:29-32
    King James Version (KJV)

    29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

    30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

    31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

    32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.



    Continued...
     
  3. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    You will discover what the Mystery is if you simply try (and I emphasize the word try) to address the points being given you.

    You will not, because you cannot.


    God bless.
     
  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I see you conveniently skipped the scripture that names exactly what the mystery was. I will assist you and repost it again:

    This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
     
  5. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    I have numerous times, but will do so again for your sake, because it is important that you understand this.

    And I will give you the Disciples of Christ, who were unbelievers in the Gospel until it was revealed to them by the Promised Spirit:


    Matthew 16:13-17
    King James Version (KJV)

    13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

    14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

    15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

    16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

    17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.



    Now, I am going to show you that believing that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, the Promised Messiah, is not equivalent to believing on Jesus Christ as the Risen Savior, because despite the revelation that He was the Messiah, the Son of the Living God...we see Peter in opposition to the very Gospel of Jesus Christ:


    Matthew 16:20-23
    King James Version (KJV)

    20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

    21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

    22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

    23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.



    You can say Peter was weak in the flesh, like most preachers do, however, what Peter does here is rebukes the Lord and says "May this never happen!"

    Think about that Revmitchell.

    Then you can think on Peter denying he even knew the Lord.

    Then you can think about all of the Disciples of Christ scattering like sheep when the Lord is taken.

    But think about this too, Revmitchell, this too was prophesied:


    John 16:28-32
    King James Version (KJV)

    28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

    29 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.

    30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

    31 Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe?

    32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.



    Good luck denying the Lord's denial of their belief here.

    How about trying to deny the Lord's denial of their belief here...


    Mark 16:9-14
    King James Version (KJV)

    9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

    10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.

    11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.

    12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.

    13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.

    14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.



    Now you say...

    The above absolutely shows that not even the Disciples of Christ understood.

    Again, what you are missing is not the knowledge of Christ coming that was lacking, but the understanding of Who Messiah was and what He would do.

    Now, deny the above point.

    You will not because you cannot. I have shown your argument cannot be supported.


    Continued...
     
  6. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Me ignoring a translation that seems to be supportive of your position is hardly to be equated with your refusal to address the points raised to you.

    I will get to this, I am addressing your confusion in order.

    ;)


    God bless.
     
  7. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Why? Paul did. Your Problem is that you are not apparently able to understand what Paul is saying. How about if you try to read the following and understand it in the context it is given:


    Ephesians 3
    King James Version (KJV)

    1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

    2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

    3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

    4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

    5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;



    Here are a few points to consider:

    1. The Mystery was made known to Paul by Revelation;
    2. The revealed Mystery is The Mystery of Christ (which is synonymous with the Mystery of the Gospel);
    3. The Mystery was not made known in other Ages;
    4. The Mystery was not made known to any man, as "the sons of men" is all inclusive of mankind, it does not distinguish between Jew and Gentile;
    5. The Mystery is now revealed to the holy Apostles and Prophets of Paul's Day by the Spirit, and that Spirit is of course the promised Spirit of the Old Testament, promised by the Father and taught of by Christ (Acts 1:4-5)...the Comforter.
    6. That though Gentile Inclusion is mentioned in v.6 you overlook the fact that the Jews had not received the promise, nor had the Old Testament Saints (Hebrews 11:13; 39-40), and that they too were in Paul's day receiving those promises.

    It is clear that the Mystery of Christ was not made known to the sons of men in other Ages. That is what you are denying.

    And I would point out that "sons of men" is all inclusive.

    So you need to seriously consider that what is demanded of your position is that Jews were being baptized into Christ and Gentiles were not, if you are going to make Gentile Inclusion the Mystery of Christ. Again, do you want to do that?

    Now, let's look at the next statement:


    6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

    7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.


    This is tied to v.2:


    2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

    6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

    7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.



    Paul ministered to the Gentiles, and it is no wonder that he proclaims the Mystery of Gospel to them. He says that in the next verse:


    8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;



    And we see that the Mystery, again, is declared to be hidden knowledge:


    9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:



    Your exegetical pattern would demand that now you declare the Mystery to be that Jesus Christ is the Creator. That is what you do, you clump statements together and draw conclusions, all the while misunderstanding the texts.

    Here is again a clear statement that the Mystery, defined as the Mystery of Christ above (v.4), was from the beginning of the world hid in God.

    Paul makes the same statement here:


    1 Corinthians 2
    King James Version (KJV)

    1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

    2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

    3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.

    4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

    5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

    6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

    7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:



    The fact is...


    9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.



    ...no-one knew this hidden wisdom...


    10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.



    ...and did not know until it was revealed by the Spirit of God Who came after Christ returned to Heaven. It is the Gospel that convicts of sin, righteousness, and judgment, Revmitchell.


    Continued...
     
  8. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    To me the mystery was, the promises made to the fathers have been received through the seed of the fathers and that seed is Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of the living God, born of Mary.

    The gospel was preached to Abraham, and in thy seed shall all the nations be blessed, Abraham understood this to mean his seed, Isaac, Therefore when God told him to kill Isaac, Abraham believed because of the promise God would raise him from the dead, thus saw the day of Christ, the resurrection. However the promise actually came through the seed of Abraham and the seed of Isaac, Jesus of Nazareth.The mystery.

    The same with the mercies of David. They were spoken to David and I am not sure how David understood them but the mystery was they were answered in Christ the seed of David. My soul will not be left in Sheol neither will my flesh see corruption.

    Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith Rom 16
    Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound. Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Tim 7-10

    Understanding having come with the promise of the Holy Spirit. Gal 3

    I think Gal 3 should explain the understanding also to Revmitchell relative to post 26.

    Heirs through in thy seed all the nations will be blessed of which I think Abraham understood as Isaac when the mysterious seed would come much later.
     
    #28 percho, Mar 5, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
  9. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    Let's look at the versions I have in electronic format on my lap top.

    MKJV that the nations should be fellow heirs,

    RV to wit, that the Gentiles are fellow–heirs

    TLV This mystery is that the Gentiles are joint heirs

    WEB that the Gentiles are fellow heirs,

    Webster That the Gentiles should be joint-heirs,

    KJV That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs

    LITV for the nations to be joint-heirs,

    ASV to wit, that the Gentiles are fellow-heirs,

    Bishops That the gentiles shoulde be inheritours also

    CEV And the mystery is this: Because of Christ Jesus, the good news has given the Gentiles a share in the promises that God gave to the Jews.

    EMTV that the Gentiles should be joint-heirs

    ESV This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs,

    Geneva That the Gentiles should be inheriters also,

    Time to give it up. Every translation I have says the same thing. The "mystery" is that the gentiles are included.

    Rev's right. Surrender gracefully and live to fight another day. :D
     
  10. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    So now, you heretic, you make the Mystery two things, Gentile Inclusion...and the creation of the Church.

    ;)

    Your as bad as another member, who also, because of his pride, was forced to start admitting what the texts state and then got seriously confused and began to make the Mystery numerous different things.

    Again, show me Gentile Inclusion here...


    Romans 16:24-26
    King James Version (KJV)

    24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

    25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

    26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:




    That Christ would come and suffer was prophesied, but, what you are missing is that no man understood what the Prophecy meant.

    That is why Peter was in opposition ot the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That is why he denied he even knew Christ. That is why the disciples were scattered, rather than "abiding."

    The Gospel is revealed to men by the Spirit Who came when Christ returned to Heaven.

    The Disciples had not yet been eternally indwelt, and shown here:


    John 14:15-18
    King James Version (KJV)

    15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

    17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

    18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.




    John 14:21-23
    King James Version (KJV)

    21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

    22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

    23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.



    Further proof that they had not received the Spirit yet is because Christ makes that clear here:


    John 7:38-39
    King James Version (KJV)

    38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

    39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)



    ...and here:


    Acts 1:4-5
    King James Version (KJV)

    4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

    5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.



    But, the Disciples were still carnal in their understanding, and were expectant of a physical kingdom...


    6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?



    That is, their understanding was that Christ would be a man directly descended from David, He would throw down their enemies,restore Israel to her former glory, and the throne would not fail to have a son of David from that time forward.

    That is what they were in expectancy of.

    But, the Revelation of the Mystery of the Gospel of Christ came to them on the Day of Pentecost, and they immediately begin to preach the Gospel.

    Now you are free to try to deny these basic truths, but...

    ...you will not, because you cannot.


    Continued...
     
  11. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    The Mystery of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is not something we have to guess at, Percho, we are told in Scripture what each mystery is.


    God bless.
     
  12. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Did I guess?
     
  13. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Gal 3 says the gospel was preached to Abraham. Yes or no?

    Did Abraham understand what was preached to him?

    As we understand it through Christ?

    Is not the mystery of what was preached to Abraham explained by Paul in Christ?
     
  14. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    What has to be explained is that the pulpit bred popular mythology of Salvation in Christ is in great error, teaching that the Old Testament Saints were eternally redeemed when the only provision for remission of sins was animal sacrifice.


    As I have asked before, show me one thing that is unorthodox bordering heresy.

    Here you present a false argument, and do not realize that you are the only proponent of two gospels in this discussion.

    The reason is this: you deny the basic truth that it is Christ alone that eternally redeems men through His offering of Himself and see the Old Testament Saints as eternally redeemed. You can deny this, but, the very false argument you present shows this, even though you do not understand why.

    There has always been one plan of salvation, and that is through Redemption which is in Christ Jesus. God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself...

    ...and that did not take place prior to the Incarnation, despite your popular pulpit mythology.

    Now what you are assuming is that I teach men were not saved in the Old Testament, and that is not the case. Their salvation was as secure as yours and my own, however, that does not make them eternally redeemed, eternally indwelt, born again believers as you and I are (if I can myself make assumptions).


    If you would stop debating yourself, my friend, you might be able to understand the Mystery of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    Many Old Testament Saints understood that Messiah was coming, for we see even Gentiles knew this.

    But what they did not know, as shown in the disciples, is that Christ would die to redeem them...

    ...eternally.


    On the contrary, I have taught numerous times on this forum that a general faith in God is no longer acceptable, as taught in Hebrews 6:1-2.

    But what you don't understand is that the Writer of Hebrews teaches that it was general faith in the Old Testament, and that the foundational principles of the Word of God are not to be remained in:


    Hebrews 6:1-2
    King James Version (KJV)

    1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

    2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.



    The fact is you are not going to show anyone prior to Pentecost, including the Disciples, believing on the Risen Savior, and that is the only means given among men whereby they may be saved in a New Covenant context, which includes Atonement for sin, Reconciliation to God through eternal indwelling and eternal union with GOd, which results in Regeneration.

    You are welcome to deny these truths, but...

    ...you will not because you cannot.


    You have not been able to deny a single point made, and have only reiterated "The Mystery is Gentile Inclusion," yet you call me a heretic?

    Get back to the porch, little pup.

    ;)


    God bless.
     
  15. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    There is the mystery of the gospel preached to Abraham.
     
  16. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Welcome to the discussion, JamesL, and you can find the thread here:

    The Mystery of the Gospel of Jesus Christ



    The Gospel is given in the Old Testament, beginning in Genesis 3:15. However, what was not given was understanding of the Gospel.

    Just to clarify, I am not denying, and never have, that we can find the Gospel of Christ in the Old Testament. What I am teaching is that understanding of the Gospel was not given, and when the "Mystery" is revealed," that is a statement that it is unveiled to the people.

    Most commentators limit the Gospel to Gentile Inclusion, but the fact is that Gentile Inclusion was also promised beginning in Genesis 3:15, reiterated in Genesis 12, and even given in clear statement in in passages such as this:


    Isaiah 42:6-7
    King James Version (KJV)

    6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

    7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.



    So the typical argument is "What do you mean the Gospel of Christ is the Mystery, we see the Gospel throughout the Old Testament!" Yet what is not considered is...this same argument nullifies making Gentile Inclusion the Mystery as well, lol.

    So just so you know what is being said here, it is not that the Gospel wasn't given, but that understanding of the Gospel was not given in Ages past, to generations past, to the sons of men, or the saints. It is now revealed to His holy Apostles and Prophets.


    Here is the question to answer: when did the Body of Christ, the Church...begin?

    And...were Jews already in the Body of Christ, in Christ, reconciled to God, eternally indwelt, and born again?

    The answer is no, God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself, and He reconciles men through the Offering of Christ, His Sacrifice, which makes atonement, not only for us, but retroactively atoned for the sins of the Old Testament Saint.


    Both are equally true. We will not go to Hell because we have received remission of sins through Christ, and are eternally redeemed.

    This was the promise of God in the Old Testament, and fulfilled in Christ:


    Hebrews 10:15-18
    King James Version (KJV)

    15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

    16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

    17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

    18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.



    This is why we are now able to enter into the presence of God:


    Hebrews 10:19-20
    King James Version (KJV)

    19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

    20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;



    Chapter Nine contrasts the earthly Tabernacle (which was parable only) with the Holiest of All, which is Heaven.


    God bless.
     
  17. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Yep scripture is clear:

    Eph 3:6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
     
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  18. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    I said you were guessing because you have not identified the Mystery, which Paul does for us.


    Abraham did not know that it was the Gospel preached unto him. We know because we have the Revelation provided by the Spirit in both the Scripture of the New Testament and His direct ministry to our hearts in giving us understanding.


    What Abraham saw was that there would be redemption through his seed, but, he did not understand that the Seed was Christ Jesus, Who was God in human flesh Who died to eternally redeem those who believe.


    Bingo.

    And Abraham did not know that. He only knew that it was through his offspring that all families of the earth would be blessed. And keep in mind, Abraham did not have the Hebrew Scriptures. We can assume that he was aware of the Proto Evangelium, but he did not know the man Christ Jesus would be God in flesh redeeming the world.


    For the most part I agree with this, because the Promises of God are answered in Jesus Christ.

    But David was aware of Gentile Inclusion in Prophecy, just as he was aware of the Gospel of Christ. That does not mean he understood it as we do.


    This is not the Mystery, though it is relevant, because it speaks of His Resurrection.


    Shows that the Mystery is the preaching of Jesus Christ, which is the Gospel, and that it was kept secret since the world began.

    And that is the point I am trying to make, lol.


    This better proclaims the Gospel, but again, it is understanding that is lacking in the Old Testament.


    Bingo.


    You would need to explain what you mean.


    I would disagree, neither knew when He would come (as no man did), and neither understood what He would do, or Who He was...when he cam.


    God bless.
     
  19. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member
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    Where does the bible say that? Where does the bible use the word gospel and say that's the gospel?

    I beg to differ. I would just prefer you answer the question I asked.

    And I'm sorry I didn't respond to more of what you wrote. You write very long
     
  20. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Let's.

    But let's also look at all relevant passages on the Mystery of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Here you are asking me to claim defeat and you have presented on snippet of a passage when already in this thread I have given numerous passages and points.

    So my advice to you would be, if you are ready to get involved in the discussion that is great, but, if you think you are going to rule on this matter without even investing the time necessary to even support one point...

    ...think again.

    ;)


    You don't even bother to give the passage verse and chapter, lol.

    Now address this:


    Ephesians 3
    King James Version (KJV)

    1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

    2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

    3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

    4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

    5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;



    Here are a few points to consider:

    1. The Mystery was made known to Paul by Revelation;
    2. The revealed Mystery is The Mystery of Christ (which is synonymous with the Mystery of the Gospel);
    3. The Mystery was not made known in other Ages;
    4. The Mystery was not made known to any man, as "the sons of men" is all inclusive of mankind, it does not distinguish between Jew and Gentile;
    5. The Mystery is now revealed to the holy Apostles and Prophets of Paul's Day by the Spirit, and that Spirit is of course the promised Spirit of the Old Testament, promised by the Father and taught of by Christ (Acts 1:4-5)...the Comforter.
    6. That though Gentile Inclusion is mentioned in v.6 you overlook the fact that the Jews had not received the promise, nor had the Old Testament Saints (Hebrews 11:13; 39-40), and that they too were in Paul's day receiving those promises.

    It is clear that the Mystery of Christ was not made known to the sons of men in other Ages. That is what you are denying.

    And I would point out that "sons of men" is all inclusive.

    So you need to seriously consider that what is demanded of your position is that Jews were being baptized into Christ and Gentiles were not, if you are going to make Gentile Inclusion the Mystery of Christ. Again, do you want to do that?

    Now, let's look at the next statement:


    6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

    7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.


    This is tied to v.2:


    2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

    6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

    7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.



    Paul ministered to the Gentiles, and it is no wonder that he proclaims the Mystery of Gospel to them. He says that in the next verse:


    8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;



    And we see that the Mystery, again, is declared to be hidden knowledge:


    9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:



    Your exegetical pattern would demand that now you declare the Mystery to be that Jesus Christ is the Creator. That is what you do, you clump statements together and draw conclusions, all the while misunderstanding the texts.

    Here is again a clear statement that the Mystery, defined as the Mystery of Christ above (v.4), was from the beginning of the world hid in God.


    Continued...
     
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