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Featured The Mystery of the Gospel of Jesus Christ 2

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Darrell C, Mar 1, 2018.

  1. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    The ignorance of that statement simply boggles the mind.

    What you are saying is that Jews were being saved by the Gospel...and Gentiles were not.

    Do you not understand that all who were saved in the Old Testament (though not eternally redeemed) were Jew and Gentile?

    Have you ever actually read the Bible, Yeshua!? Or do you simply repeat what others here say if it sounds good to you?


    God bless.
     
  2. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Okay, here is something from the Bible, Yeshua!:


    Romans 16:25-26
    King James Version (KJV)

    25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

    26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:



    Now if the Gospel and preaching of Jesus Christ which Paul engaged in was according to the Revelation of the Mystery that was kept secret since the world began, what is it that was not going on prior to the revelation of the mystery?


    God bless.
     
  3. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Ah the mystery of the gospel!

    And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. Gal 3:8,9

    Faith is the mystery of the gospel. The ? is what faith?

    Gal 3:2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- out of hearing of faith?
    Gal 3:14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles (nations) in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
    3:14 ἵνα εἰς τὰ ἔθνη ἡ εὐλογία τοῦ Ἀβραὰμ γένηται ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ ἵνατὴν ἐπαγγελίαν τοῦ πνεύματος λάβωμεν διὰ τῆς πίστεως
    ------------------------------------- the faith. A very definite faith. Whose faith? Why did we, whether Jew of Greek, the nations, receive the promise of the Spirit?

    Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter (the Spirit) will not come unto you; (<You will not receive the Spirit) but if I depart, I will send him unto you. John 16:7

    On the afternoon of the very day this was spoken, where did Jesus of the seed of David go away, to? Where was Jesus, of the loins of David, for three days and three nights following his going away? “Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne,[fn] “he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. Acts 2:30,31 NKJV

    Was his going away, Obedience of Faith?

    who in the days of his flesh both prayers and supplications unto Him who was able to save him from death -- with strong crying and tears -- having offered up, and having been heard in respect to that which he feared, through being a (<a should not be here) Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience, YLT Heb 5:7,8

    The obedience of what? Faith? Whose faith? Who was able to save him from death? From the state of, the dead? From Hades?

    “This Jesus (of the seed of David) God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. “Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. Acts 2:32.33 NKJV

    Again John 15:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
    Again Gal 3:14 YLT that to the nations the blessing of Abraham may come in Christ Jesus, that the promise of the Spirit we may receive through the faith.

    That is the mystery of the gospel of Jesus Christ......................................emphatic.
     
  4. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    And here is what the Bible actually states:


    Colossians 1:25-27
    King James Version (KJV)

    25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

    26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

    27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:



    Nothing about Gentile Inclusion here, what he is saying is that he is making known the riches of the glory of this Mystery among the Gentiles, which is...

    ...Christ in us.

    In other words, the riches of the glory of this mystery is not the Mystery itself. Just like if I said I am "making known the riches of the glory of salvation" I would not be speaking about salvation, but aspects of salvation.

    Nothing about Gentile Inclusion here.


    God bless.
     
  5. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Out of time, Percho, so I will have to come back to this, but wanted to comment on a few things before leaving:


    Again, all nations are in view, just as we see in Romans 16:


    Romans 16:25-26
    King James Version (KJV)

    25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

    26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:



    And the point I have raised several times is that the misconception that Israel, the Jews, were being eternally redeemed (which is a primary aspect of the Gospel of Christ) overlooks Scripture's teaching that both Jew and Gentile are both being saved in a manner they were not before. I made that point in the last post I did prior to Yeshua1's post:


    I'd be glad if you would like to look at that issue, those who imply it with their doctrine don't seem to want to.


    No, faith is not the Mystery of the Gospel, because faith is a standard among the saved from both the Old Testament as well as the new.

    And we would not even call "the faith of Jesus Christ the Mystery," because we are told that the Mystery is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, not the results. That would be the riches of the glory as we see the indwelling of Christ referred to in Colossians 1.

    So I will ask you the same question Revmitchell refused to answer:


    Romans 16:25-26
    King James Version (KJV)

    25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

    26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:


    Is the mystery here...the Gospel of Jesus Christ or no?

    If not, what is "according to the revelation of the mystery" that was "kept secret since the world began?"

    And I will get to your post and address it in full when I return. Thanks for your participation.


    God bless.
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    ANY who have even been saved were eternally redeemed!
    And the mysteries that God revealed to paul was indeed Christ is us gentiles, as now part of the salvation plan and included with Believing Jews now , and also that there was to be the Church age now
     
  7. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    As I said in my post to the Jew first and also the Greek. All, nations.
    The mystery is the receiving of the Spirit, for, obedience of faith and the obedience nor the faith is of us but of Son and Father.

    that they all may be one, as Thou Father art in me, and I in Thee; that they also in us may be one, that the world may believe that Thou didst send me. 'And I, the glory that thou hast given to me, have given to them, that they may be one as we are one; John 17:21,22 -----Is that not by the promise of the Holy Spirit? Does not the following say the same? ---------------------Acts 2:33 NKJV “Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
     
  8. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Methinks we agree about a lot.
     
  9. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    False.

    Men are only redeemed through the Cross, which means though they were justified during their lifetimes, they died not having received remission of sins through the Atonement of Christ, Reconciliation through Christ, and they were not justified through the Redemption which is in Jesus Christ:


    Hebrews 9:12-15
    King James Version (KJV)

    12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

    13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

    14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

    15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.




    Romans 3:21-25
    King James Version (KJV)

    21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

    22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

    23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

    24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

    25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;



    "Now" is an important word. You see, your Catholic Doctrine (and don't deny Protestant Theology is just a reformation of Catholic Doctrine) will not allow you to properly interpret these passages, because you must make them fit the doctrine you have indoctrinated yourself into.

    Like I said, read your Bible, Yeshua1.


    You are as bad as the others. You think reiterating falsehood makes it true.

    That is the riches of the glory of the Mystery, not the Mystery itself.

    What was revealed to men was the understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Show me the first person in Scripture prior to Pentecost believing on Jesus Christ the Risen Savior. You won't find one, because God did not reveal to men, Angels, or demons...Who Jesus Christ was and what He was going to do.


    Again...have you ever read the Bible?

    Don't you realize that there were no Jews prior to God's creation of the Nation of Israel, and that those who believed (Abel, Noah, Abraham, Job, Moses, and Jacob, to name a few) were not...Jews?

    It isn't about believing in God, it is about believing specifically that Jesus Christ died to take upon Him the penalty of sin due to all men, that He rose again, ascended into Heaven, and is now eternally redeeming all those who believe on Him in this capacity?

    The Old Testament Saints were saved by grace through faith in the eternal perspective, but, they were not eternally redeemed.

    Your doctrine is Catholic, amigo, because if men were eternally redeemed prior to the Cross, then there are two ways to be saved: faith and works.

    So if you don't mind, run on down to other denominations and tell the Catholics there you apologize for denying their doctrine, because you didn't realize you believe the same thing.


    And who makes up the Church? Jews and Gentiles, right?

    No Jew was made a member of the Church prior to Pentecost, not even the Disciples of Christ. And that is what had to happen if you want to make Gentile Inclusion the Mystery. It would be adding Gentiles to something that was already happening, and that is not the case.

    No Jew was eternally redeemed, eternally indwelt, or had received Atonement through the Cross. Applying the Cross to them in their lifetimes denies quite a bit of Scripture. You can start with the Scripture I gave above, and note that His Death redeemed the transgression which were under the Law.


    God bless.
     
  10. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    I seem to remember you saying it was faith:

    Now you say it is the eternal indwelling.

    Both are wrong: what you are forgetting is the word...revelation.

    The revelation (unveiling, making known) of the Mystery is God enlightening the minds and hearts of men to the Gospel, which deals, not what happens to us, but what happened to Christ. One mystery revealed is that God manifest in the flesh. Only a born again believer can understand that. The Mystery, though, that is revealed, is that Christ died in our stead to take upon Himself the penalty of our sin, that He was buried, and that He arose again the Third Day.

    That is the Mystery revealed unto men.

    And as I said, I will address your post in full, minus what I have already addressed.


    God bless.
     
  11. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    They received the Spirit of God because they placed faith in Jesus Christ.

    The point here is that they did not "work" to receive the Spirit.

    The eternal indwelling is in view here, as opposed to the filling which was consistent in the Old Testament Eras and still occurs in the eternally indwelt believer.


    You're missing the point of the verse: that we should receive the Spirit that was promised back then, lol. It did not happen back then.

    It is our faith and it is specific to faith in Jesus Christ.


    Because promised this, and God keeps His promises.

    The premise is that man was under condemnation, and God meant to remedy that condition in this way. All of the Old Testament builds upon the premise of the Gospel, and the Spirit promised is the One Who revealed it to men, and still reveals it as He ministers to unbelievers.


    In view is His return to Heaven. Simply back up in the Book to find this:


    John 14
    King James Version (KJV)

    1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

    2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

    3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.



    While it is true He went to Hades and liberated the captives there (the Just from the Old Testament), where "He was going" was specific to Heaven. Returning to where He had come from.


    While we are not told specifically how it actually worked, it is my own view that first, He went to Sheol/Hades to proclaim His victory over death, and then secondly into Heaven where He presented those who had been justified before the Father.


    As opposed to David:


    Acts 2:29
    King James Version (KJV)

    29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.



    So I would suggest the primary reference is to physical death, which points to His Resurrection. When David died, he did not rise again, and, his person was "left in Hades." Not so with the Risen Savior.


    No, just the Redemptive Plan He formulated prior to Creating the world.


    Speaks of His humbling of Himself and taking on flesh, and going to the Cross.

    The YLT is a horrible translation. It confuses people more often than not.


    From physical death. Christ did not have to exercise "faith," He came specifically to die physically.


    Hebrews 5:8-9
    King James Version (KJV)

    8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

    9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;



    Secondly, the "obedience" in view was to that which He came to do, and having performed it by dying on the Cross, He became, at that time...the Author of Eternal Salvation.

    And it was then that He began bestowing Eternal Salvation. He began in Hades with the Just spirits of the Old Testament Saints, then some fifty days later with the Disciples, who immediately began preaching that which they did not understand before.

    That is because the Gospel was revealed to them by the Spirit Who came to indwell them. This is the Baptism with the Holy Ghost.



    Sorry, no, the Mystery is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, revealed to men by the Comforter, the Promised Spirit, Who the Disciples received when they were Baptized with the Holy Ghost.

    Consider this passage, Percho, and see that correlation to their being baptized with the Holy Ghost and their being witnesses of Jesus Christ:


    Acts 1:4-8
    King James Version (KJV)

    4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

    5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

    6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

    7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

    8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.




    Like I said before, we do not have to guess at this, Paul teaches it plainly.

    The Mystery is the very Gospel of Jesus Christ.


    God bless.
     
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