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Featured The NIV In Comparison to the ESV. Part 3

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Rippon2, Jan 28, 2020.

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  1. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    “evil desire” and “desire” are both translated from the same Greek word, epithymias (sounds like an organ of the body) :confused:
    From BDAG, epithymias can be translated as a neutral term (ESV) but it also can indicate forbidden or inordinate desires (lust) with its negative (evil) connotations (NIV).
    Neither is wrong, it’s simply a choice of the translators based upon context.
    The NIV then translates the same word simply as desires in the next verse.

    I like the simplicity of the ESV in this passage.

    Rob
     
    #21 Deacon, Feb 9, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
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  2. Rippon2

    Rippon2 Well-Known Member

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    REB : "Temptation comes when anyone is lured and dragged away by his own desires."
    NLT : "Temptation comes from our own desires, which entice us and drag us away."
     
    #22 Rippon2, Feb 12, 2020
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  3. Rippon2

    Rippon2 Well-Known Member

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    Proverbs 13
    v. 5
    ESV : The righteous hates falsehood
    NIV : The righteous hate what is false
    [It is speaking of a group, not a singular person. So it should be 'hate' not 'hates.' The ESV does this continually.]

    v.10
    ESV : By insolence comes nothing but strife
    NIV : Where there is strife, there is pride

    v. 25
    ESV : the belly of the wicked suffers want
    NIV : the stomach of the wicked goes hungry

    Chapter 14
    v. 16
    ESV : a fool is reckless and careless
    NIV : a fool is hotheaded and yet feels secure

    v. 20
    ESV : The poor is disliked even by his neighbor
    NIV : The poor are shunned even by their neighbors
    [See my comments for 13:5. The NIV grammar is superior to that of the ESV.]

    v. 28
    ESV : In a multitude of people is the glory of a king, but without people a prince is ruined.
    NIV : A population is a king's glory, but without subjects a prince is ruined.

    v.32
    ESV : The wicked is overthrown
    NIV : the wicked are brought down

    v. 35
    ESV : A servant who deals wisely has the king's favor
    NIV : A king delights in a wise servant
     
    #23 Rippon2, Feb 12, 2020
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  4. Rippon2

    Rippon2 Well-Known Member

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    Proverbs 15

    v.6
    ESV : there is much treasure
    NIV : contains great treasure

    v.11
    ESV : the hearts of the children of man
    NIV : human hearts

    v. 18
    ESV : A hot-tempered man
    NIV : A hot-tempered person

    v.21
    ESV : a man of understanding
    NIV : whoever has understanding

    Chapter 16

    v.2
    ESV : the Lord weighs the spirit
    NIV : motives are weighed by the Lord

    v.14
    ESV : a wise man
    NIV : the wise

    v. 20
    ESV : Whoever gives thought to the word will discover good
    NIV : Whoever gives heed to instruction prospers

    v.21
    ESV : The wise of heart is called discerning
    NIV : The hearts of the wise are called discerning

    v.22
    ESV : Good sense is a fountain of life to him who has it
    NIV : Prudence is a fountain of life to the prudent

    v. 28
    ESV : A man of violence
    NIV : A violent person
     
    #24 Rippon2, Mar 5, 2020
  5. Rippon2

    Rippon2 Well-Known Member

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    Chapter 17

    v.20
    ESV : A man of crooked heart does not discover good
    NIV : One whose heart is corrupt does not prosper

    v.21
    ESV : He who sires a fool gets himself sorrow
    NIV : To have a fool for a child brings grief

    v.23
    ESV : The wicked accepts a bribe
    NIV : The wicked accept bribes

    v.27
    ESV : he who has a cool spirit is a man of understanding
    NIV : whoever has understanding is even-tempered
     
    #25 Rippon2, Mar 28, 2020
  6. Rippon2

    Rippon2 Well-Known Member

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    Chapter 18

    v.8
    ESV : The words of a whisperer
    NIV " The words of a gossip

    v.14
    ESV : A man's spirit will endure sickness
    NIV : The human spirit can endure in sickness

    v. 20
    ESV : From the fruit of a man's mouth his stomach is satisfied
    NIV : From the fruit of their mouth a person's stomach is filled

    v. 24
    ESV : A man of many companions may come to ruin
    NIV : One who has unreliable friends soon comes to ruin
     
    #26 Rippon2, Mar 28, 2020
  7. Rippon2

    Rippon2 Well-Known Member

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    Chapter 19

    v.6
    ESV : Many seek the favor of the a generous man
    NIV : Many curry favor with a ruler

    v.8
    ESV : Whoever gets sense loves his own soul
    NIV : The one who gets wisdom loves life

    v. 11
    ESV : Good sense makes one slow to anger
    NIV : A person's wisdom yields patience

    v. 29
    ESV : Condemnation is ready for scoffers
    NIV : Penalties are prepared for mockers
     
    #27 Rippon2, Mar 31, 2020
  8. alexander284

    alexander284 Well-Known Member

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    You know, when it comes to the Book of Proverbs, I actually prefer the ESV.

    On the other hand, I can definitely see where the NIV may be preferable in the Book of Job.

    Overall, I prefer the ESV (especially for the New Testament), but often find myself utilizing the NIV for comparison purposes (especially for the Old Testament).

    Bottom line: your specific examples have helped me to appreciate the value of comparing and contrasting various Bible translations.

    Thank you for taking the time and effort to post these specific passages, and I encourage you to continue to do so.
     
    #28 alexander284, Mar 31, 2020
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  9. Rippon2

    Rippon2 Well-Known Member

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    The NET Note supports 'refute.'
     
    #29 Rippon2, Apr 2, 2020
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  10. Rippon2

    Rippon2 Well-Known Member

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    The NET text reads :
    Your wickedness affects only a person like yourself, and your righteousness
    only other people.

    This is another case in which the term 'son of man' is an antiquated term for people
    in contexts such as these.
     
    #30 Rippon2, Apr 2, 2020
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  11. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    This one is intriguing because they are saying two different things. The NIV qualifies the friends as being "unreliable". The ESV qualifies them as being "many".
     
    #31 InTheLight, Apr 2, 2020
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  12. Rippon2

    Rippon2 Well-Known Member

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    Really now, surely we can all agree that a 'modern' version should eliminate old-fashioned expressions such as "full of fatness.'
    The NET reads identically as the NIV.
    The NET reads the same as the NIV here.
    The NET reads : "Yes, God is great --beyond our knowledge!"

    The phrase "we know him not" has not been normal English for more than a century.
    There are still several places in the NIV that have that kind of wording, but hopefully will be pruned in the next revision.
     
    #32 Rippon2, Apr 2, 2020
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  13. Rippon2

    Rippon2 Well-Known Member

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    This is from Proverbs 18:24. In the NET Notes a source cited says "there are friends who are unreliable." But then disagrees with that rendering.
     
    #33 Rippon2, Apr 2, 2020
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  14. Rippon2

    Rippon2 Well-Known Member

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    "He hears not" is NOT current English.
     
    #34 Rippon2, Apr 2, 2020
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  15. Rippon2

    Rippon2 Well-Known Member

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    The NET text has : "Would you indeed annul my justice?"
    [/quote]
    40:19
    ESV : the first of the works of God
    NIV : It ranks first among the works of God
    [/quote]
    The NET text is identical with the NIV.
     
    #35 Rippon2, Apr 2, 2020
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  16. Rippon2

    Rippon2 Well-Known Member

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    Come on now. The NIV has the better rendering.
    Let not that kind of phraseology be said in a 'modern' English translation, even the NIV needs to be weeded of these things sometimes.
    [/quote]
    In these contexts the word 'body' is much better than 'flesh.'
     
    #36 Rippon2, Apr 2, 2020
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  17. Rippon2

    Rippon2 Well-Known Member

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    Snippets from Proverbs 20

    v. 3
    ESV : It is an honor for a man to keep aloof from strife
    NIV : It's to one's honor to avoid strife

    v. 6
    ESV : Many a man proclaims his own steadfast love
    NIV : Many claim to have unfailing love

    v. 7
    ESV: The righteous who walks in his integrity
    NIV : The righteous lead blameless lives

    v. 13
    ESV : Love not sleep
    NIV : Do not love sleep

    v. 19
    ESV : therefore do not associate with a simple babbler
    NIV : so avoid anyone who talks too much

    v. 24
    ESV : A man's steps are from the Lord
    NIV : A person's steps are from the Lord

    v. 27
    ESV : The spirit of man
    NIV : The human spirit
     
    #37 Rippon2, Apr 6, 2020
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  18. Rippon2

    Rippon2 Well-Known Member

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    Proverbs 21

    v.4
    ESV : the lamp of the wicked are sin.
    NIV : the unplowed field of the field of the wicked --- produce sin.

    v. 18
    ESV : The wicked is a ransom
    NIV : The wicked become a ransom for the righteous

    v.26
    ESV : the righteous gives and does not hold back
    NIV : the righteous give without sparing

    v. 29
    ESV : the upright gives thought to his ways
    NIV : the upright give thought to their ways
     
    #38 Rippon2, Apr 8, 2020
  19. alexander284

    alexander284 Well-Known Member

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    When reading these Old Testament passages from the ESV, I feel as if I'm still reading the RSV.

    I can certainly see why you're advocating that the translators for the ESV take another pass at the Old Testament.
     
    #39 alexander284, Apr 8, 2020
  20. Rippon2

    Rippon2 Well-Known Member

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    Proverbs 22

    v. 9
    ESV : Whoever has a bountiful eye will be blessed
    NIV : The generous will themselves be blessed

    v. 22
    ESV : Do not rob the poor, because he is poor
    NIV : Do not exploit the poor because they are poor

    v. 26
    ESV : Be not one
    NIV : Do not be one

    Proverbs 23

    v. 6
    ESV : Do not eat the bread of a man who is stingy
    NIV : Do not eat the food of a begrudging host

    v.17
    ESV : Let not your heart
    NIV : Do not let your heart

    v. 20
    ESV : Be not
    NIV : Do not

    v.30
    ESV : Those who tarry long over wine
    NIV : Those who linger over wine

    v. 34
    ESV : lies down in the midst of the sea
    NIV : sleeping on the high seas
     
    #40 Rippon2, Apr 8, 2020
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