I remember reading your thoughts on his"gang". they were posted for awhile, then could not be found.
The gang was being accused of 6 or 7 things as I recall...being Dishonest, untrustworthy, behaving as non-Christians, Martin Marprelate, Biblicist, myself and others were named as I recall..... Do you remember that post, I know Biblicist does.
The plausibility of John 3:18
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JonC, Mar 24, 2019.
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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But that is why I was careful to use the "if" and such. Not as an "out" but so that you could see those were the few alternatives I could come up with. I do apologize if you thought differently, but I would never question your view on that part because it would be to question your salvation. I never considered you anything but a brother (there are some I doubt, but not you). -
SovereignGrace Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Again, I am sorry if you thought it a statement you did not believe Christ was God's Son. That is not the case at all. I have always considered you a brother (even through our disagreements). I cannot say that for every one here, but I have no doubt of your faith. -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Hence, Jesus is returning to the need of new birth as first introduced in John 3:3-11. Verse 21 gives credit to the work of God (new birth) for anyone who does love the light and comes to it.
The "condemned already" refers to the root cause for both the superficical cause of condemnation (v. 18b) and the deeper heart cause for condemnation that prevents belief and that is the condemnation due to one man's sin:
for the judgment was by one to condemnation, .....Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation;
The new birth (Jn 3:3-6) is necessary for all men because all mankind are born into this world with a fallen nature due to one man's sin, and that is the root condemnation to explain their love for darkness, hatred of light and refusal to beleive. -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Reformed1689 Well-Known Member
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Now, you mention man's depraved nature. Here we have some common ground (at least a very little). I do not see man's nature as changing from Adam to Able. BUT I do see sin as a power over mankind as being introduced into the world. I am not certain that these thoughts are so foreign as to be major barriers. The difference (IMHO) is that while you view it as ontological to fallen man I view it as external with an ontological effect.
Do we disagree? Absolutely. But it is not something that I'd pull out the big guns over. -
Yes. Adam had to believe in Christ (the One through Whom Adam was created) in order to have eternal life. This is, IMHO, the root of the Fall. Adam put his faith in himself rather than in God. Otherwise he would not have sinned. -
Reformed1689 Well-Known Member
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For me, I believe that the Fall was within God's plan all along. I do not think that God was surprised or taken off guard. So I do not believe there was ever a provision for Adam to live forever. (I hold the "five points" plus "double predestination"....so I'm a bit pro-divine sovereignty in these things).
Also, Paul states that God's nature was made known to man through Creation (the "invisible attributes" to include "the Godhead"). If I had to choose between the Father and Son interacting with Adam, I'd lean to it being the Christ pre-incarnate.
I am a bit of a "literalist" when it comes to Scripture, so I accept that there is room for disagreement here. But I believe that the nature of God is known through Creation and that all things were created through Christ. (I also believe in a literal 6 day creation, which is another topic, but explains my "simple" take on what is written).
Basically, when we talk of man and we talk of life, I believe it is only in Christ. Period. Even Adam. -
Reformed1689 Well-Known Member
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Reformed1689 Well-Known Member
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Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 14:6
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known. John 1:18 -
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Reformed1689 Well-Known Member
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You suppose that Adam had access to the Father (the ANE language of the Old Testament suggests otherwise, but that's extra-biblical).
Can you provide a verse that states it was the Father who walked through the Garden and interacted with Adam, or is that speculation? -
Reformed1689 Well-Known Member
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