Featured The potter and the clay.

This argument is not all that helpful, because the same accusation can be leveled against you. "You insist on describing him as a non-Calvinist*. That's a very tight box, and utterly fails to consider his full sovereignty."


*[insert whatever label you prefer; so long as you don't use the pretentious 'Biblical' label which is very offensive to those who derive their view from Scripture as well]

 

This is what spikes my blood pressure more than anything, the tone, posture and attitude that "I have a keener insight, a loftier view, a more complete understanding of scripture and the mind of GAWD.......than my opponent.

*Note: this is meant to be a general statement rather than an stone cast your way.

 

....and you've carried your lil' feelins' around in your hands since you've been on this board, QF; it takes NOTHING to hurt them.

 

Yes, I do have "feelings" kyredneck....but I could still "take you". Little feelings or no.

 

Seems like the answer is in the following Scripture:

Jeremiah 18:6. O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

Romans 9:21. Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

 

And to whom does God address this Scripture?

Hints: Jeremiah 18:6 ends "O house of Israel."
Romans 9:23, 24 references "us" and "Jews," not singular persons, and though he speaks of Pharaoh in v. 17, he nonetheless knows, as do we, that it was said of Pharaoh that he hardened his own heart as well.

Exodus 8, NASB
32 But Pharaoh hardened his heart this time also, and he did not let the people go.

Exodus 9
34 But when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunder had ceased, he sinned again and hardened his heart, he and his servants.​

And Samuel's ultimate pronouncement on Israel was they had hardened their hearts "as the Egyptians and Pharaoh did (1 Samuel 6:6)?" Paul clearly preaches election as corporate and as belonging to those who believe in the next chapter of Romans.

Romans 10
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED." ​

Truthfully, Reformed theology can make no sense at all of this wonderful, universal call to salvation. "Whoever will" may come.

Paul’s burden, then, in Romans 9 is not to narrow the scope of God’s election but to broaden it. He wants to take in all who have faith in Christ Jesus regardless of their ethnicity. Election, then, is first and foremost a corporate notion: God has chosen for Himself a people, a corporate entity, and it is up to us by our response of faith, enabled entirely by the Holy Spirit's working on our heart, mind, soul and spirit, as to whether or not we choose to be members of that corporate group destined to salvation. He empowers, but we must ultimately decide.

 

But Jesus Christ also said: Matthew 7:21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Corporate election has been floated around a lot these days but I am not sure what those who use it mean. It is true that God chose the nation Israel for a specific purpose. I suppose that could be called "corporate election". That being said God saves people as individuals and He choses or elects people unto Salvation in Jesus Christ as individuals. And I like that "whoever will" which Jesus Christ defines so carefully!

John 6:65. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

John 6:39. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

And then there is this wonderful invitation: Revelation 22:17. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. God is indeed Good!

 

I will give that a heartfelt Amen!

 

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