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The Pre-incarnate Christ

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Hobie, Aug 8, 2020.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Bible teaches us that Jesus us fully God and man!
     
    #61 Yeshua1, Aug 13, 2020
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    That is what the creeds teach as well (I am not sure @1689Dave understands what he has read in the creeds so I provided a section).

    We have the problem that "nature" is not always adequately defined, but orthodox Christianity holds that Christ is fully God and fully man (not God plus some humanity or man plus some divinity).
     
    #62 JonC, Aug 13, 2020
  3. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    What you are missing is the sum total of Christ. In Christ, the man, dwelt the trinity who spoke through the second person the eternal Son. He did not have a human person which is Nestorianism, condemned as heresy a couple of times and is popular today in several cults.

    The trinity does not change but took on sinless human nature in his virgin birth. That is, the Trinity did not die on the cross, only the sacrificial body died and returned to life for the redemption of the elect.
     
    #63 1689Dave, Aug 14, 2020
  4. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Stick with the creeds and their definitions and it will be OK.
     
    #64 1689Dave, Aug 14, 2020
  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Does the symbol of Chalcedon have this problem? That's my statement on it.
     
    #65 1689Dave, Aug 14, 2020
  6. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    = Nestorianism = heresy = position of several cults today.
     
    #66 1689Dave, Aug 14, 2020
  7. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Not as you define it.
     
    #67 1689Dave, Aug 14, 2020
  8. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Full human nature, full divine nature. Not two persons. One person God.
     
    #68 1689Dave, Aug 14, 2020
  9. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    If you stick to the Symbol of Chalcedon and avoid Nestorianism, yes.
     
    #69 1689Dave, Aug 14, 2020
  10. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    But you need to define this by the symbol of Chalcedon and pull back from Nestorianism.
     
    #70 1689Dave, Aug 14, 2020
  11. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Stick with the Symbol of Chalcedon for the precision of the doctrine.
     
    #71 1689Dave, Aug 14, 2020
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are you holding to a Jesus only model here then?
     
    #72 Yeshua1, Aug 14, 2020
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I much prefer to stick with what the Bible states on Jesus!
     
    #73 Yeshua1, Aug 14, 2020
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Define Jesus by scripture!
     
    #74 Yeshua1, Aug 14, 2020
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Is He forever the God man?
     
    #75 Yeshua1, Aug 14, 2020
  16. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Jesus Christ is the NT name for the Trinity.
    “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” Colossians 2:9 (NCPB)
     
    #76 1689Dave, Aug 14, 2020
  17. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    The most accurate definition I've found is in the Symbol of Chalcedon already provided.
     
    #77 1689Dave, Aug 14, 2020
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Is the trinity?
     
    #78 1689Dave, Aug 14, 2020
  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Each creed builds on the previous (that is the nature of theology). The creeds were developed to address strong errors at that time. The end result in terms of orthodoxy is that Christ is fully man and fully God.

    What the creeds denounced was the idea that Christ was God appearing human, human but not fully God, God but not fully man, ect.

    My question is do you agree with the creeds OR do you reject that Christ us fully man and fully God.

    You seem to want to have it both ways. You say that you hold the orthodox view but then you appear to say Jesus was not fully human (a denial of the orthodox position).

    I am simply asking if you believe Christ is fully man and fully God. Let your answer be yes or no (it is a yes or no question). No need to hide.

    It seems you may have answered with Y1, but I am not sure.
     
    #79 JonC, Aug 14, 2020
  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    So are the ecumenical creeds true? Chalcedon says Christ is God in one person with two natures. One fully human and one fully divine. I can't imagine how you and others would find this so challenging. So taxing to run into a discussion of this length.
     
    #80 1689Dave, Aug 14, 2020
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