God can do anything He wants (Psalm 115:3; 135:6). Your point is what?
With respect, I don't think I am obliged to conform to your stereotype. Tongue
God certainly is sovereign, and Adam certainly had freewill, but since the fall, man's will is in bondage to sin (John 3:19) and he cannot perceive spiritual truth unless and until God is pleased to give him new birth (John 3:6; 1 Cor. 2:14).
The Reprobate Calvinist
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by vooks, Sep 2, 2015.
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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MB -
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Now let's settle your next defense. You say God must give a person a new heart BEFORE the person can believe. Q. When did the New Covenant begin? -
Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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1 John 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.
The bible is clear. Regeneration precedes faith, not the other way around. And it is also abundantly clear that everyone who believes, believes this to be true. :) -
Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
After the fall Adam and Eve did not wander round the Garden crying out, "God, where are you?" On the contrary, they hid from Him and tried to establish their own righteousness (Gen. 3:7); rather, it was God who came seeking them (Gen. 3:9) and provided a covering (Heb. kaphar) for their sin (v.21) which involved the death of an innocent creature, prefiguring the death of the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world.
Nor was Abraham earnestly seeking God. 'Thus says the LORD God of Israel: "Your fathers, including Terah, the father of Abraham and the father of Nahor, dwelt on the other side of the river in old times; and they served other gods. Then I took your father Abraham from the other side of the river, led him throughout all the land of Canaan......"' (Josh. 24:2-3). There is no indication that Abraham was praying, "O God, please get me out of this awful place Ur of the Chaldees!" No, God came to Abraham and called him out. And since we know that the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God (1 Cor. 2:14), Abraham must have been 'saved' or regenerate. 'By faith Abraham obeyed.....' (Heb. 11:8).
Right from the very beginning it is the case that 'Salvation belongs to the LORD' (Psalm 3:8; Jonah 3:9; cf. Titus 1:2). -
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
So you believe that people who were saved before Pentecost were unregenerate?
That is very interesting, but I can hardly think it is correct.
'Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not his' (Romans 8:9). Nicodemus was told before Pentecost that unless he was born again, he could neither see nor enter the kingdom of God. Why? Because 'That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit' (John 3:6). When Peter confessed Jesus as the Messiah, he was told, '.....flesh and blood has not revealed this to you but My Father who is in heaven' (Matt. 16:17; cf. 1 Cor. 12:3).
If you want to know how the New Covenant differs from the Mosaic Covenant, I listed elsewhere 17 ways in which it is better. I can post that again if it will be helpful. No doubt the Holy Spirit was poured out in greater effusion at Pentecost than hitherto, but that is not the gist of the New Covenant. Under the Old Covenant, membership was restricted almost entirely to the Israelites, and while people came into that covenant at birth, only a few were actually saved (Isaiah 1:9), the vast majority being unregenerate. The blessings of the New Covenant come to all people- that is, Jew and Gentile, male and female etc. (Joel 2:28). Everyone in the New Covenant knows the Lord (Jer. 31:34).
There has only ever been one way of salvation- by grace, through faith in Christ, whether looking forward or looking back. That is why Abel was a prophet (Luke 11:50-51), and why he still speaks today to those who will listen (Heb. 11:4). What does he say? 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved!'
You might care to read this: https://marprelate.wordpress.com/2009/08/28/the-prophet-abel/ -
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robustheologian Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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robustheologian Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I do agree that no one can be saved WITHOUT the works of Jesus Christ completed, but salvation was possible PRIOR to the work of Jesus Christ. This isn't hard to grasp especially if one believes in a covenant of redemption. The problem is most people who disagree with OT saints being regenerate have a poor understanding of God's eternal plan. -
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robustheologian Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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So what is it you see as the OT saints having not received prior to the cross?
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