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The Restrainer

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Agent47, Jun 24, 2019.

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  1. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    What? The reply doesn't even address what was quoted.
     
  2. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    Uh-huh, and? How does citing those, negate the others I cited? or the many other passages in other translations that can be cited?

    Are you an "NKJV -NASV - ESV - NIV" only person?
     
  3. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    I think there are many reasons to doubt their identity - intermarriage; rape of the victims of war; descendants of the mixed multitude who became Israelites; proselytes; the Khazar adoption of the Jewish religion to establish a national religion distinct from Islam & Orthodox Christianity. Physical & genetic differences between Ashkenazi European Jews & Semitic Mediterranean Jews exist.

    But this is not significant for the Gospel - God knows those who are his, as Paul wrote -
    2 Tim. 2:19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”
    Physical descent from Abraham is of no saving merit - as both John & Jesus insisted, it is worthless without repentance & faith. Mat. 3 & John 8 previously quoted.

    You have quoted no Scriptures to support your teaching. Jesus fulfilled OC prophecy & there is no NC prophecy concerning the restoration of the nation of Israel, only salvation by the Gospel. And no prophecy concerning the reestablishment of earthly Jerusalem as the city of God. Rebuilding of a temple for animal sacrifices would be a rejection of Calvary.

    Again no Scripture support.

    Greatness or great wickedness? Their actions against the "Samaritans" aka Palestinians are directly against God's warnings by the prophets. If you think the tribes of Israel are repossessing the land, read to the end the divisions of the land in Ezek. 47.

    The time came - it is called "Pentecost." THAT was the miracle of prophecy. The US & Britain & other countries are supplying the armaments for the oppression of Palestine. Your tax dollars are being poured into Israel to provide European & US Jews with the financial support - healthcare, housing & education as well as military - that is denied the Americans.

    Don't just take my word - look for relevant Scripture & check with Palestinian Christians such as the Bethlehem Bible College. And there are many Jews who reject Zionist militancy.
     
    #83 Covenanter, Jul 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
  4. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I'm a multi-version user. The KJVO myth has NO Scriptural & is therefore false. It's MAN-MADE source is well-documented elsewhere on this site in the "Bible versions" forum.
     
  5. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Many other people left Egypt with the Israelis or joined with them enroute to Canaan, such as some Egyptians, Midianites & Kenites, Ethiopians. (Moses was married to one, besides being married to the Midianite Zipporah), and later, Gibeonites, & various Canaanites, &, as time passed, a few Philistines & Jebusites, & other undocumented ones. As time passed, many israelis married these non-Israelis, & eventually their descendants were counted as Israelis. So, they've been a potpourri for awhile.

    Yes, both Jew & non-Jew must come to Jesus the same way.

    Jesus fulfilled all the OT prophecy about His first coming. But many other prophecies about Judah and Israel are not yet fulfilled. You seemtabee leaning toward the false doctrine of "replacement theology". God has NOT replaced Israel & Judah in prophecy ! !

    And most Jews reject "Calvary" anyway. They fully intend to build a new temple & resume OT practices. And they WILL, so the 'beast' can commit the 'abomination of desolation' in it. Now, not for one nanosecond do I believe it'll be a true temple of God's, as JESUS won't be worshipped in it, but the world will believe it is, especially the beast's followers. And no matter where one does it, one's proclaiming himself to be God is an 'abomination' !


    MMRRPP! WRONG!

    PLENTY of it! In several places, God said He will restore Israel & Judah, make them one nation again, & make it great.

    Much of Ezekiel's prophecy remains unfulfilled yet. Remember, in the famous vision of the dry bones, God will restore the **WHOLE** House of Israel, not just the Jews. And I noticed in Ez. 47 what God said about non-Israelis living among them.



    No; that was the coming of the HOLY SPIRIT in Jesus' place as Teacher.
    And there's no doubt that the Jews of israel & elsewhere are the descendants of the Jews among whom Jesus was born. And yes, many of them are sinful. No one denies that.

    The 'beast' will broker some kinda deal which'll cause both Israel & her current enemies to disarm, but the old hatred from the Muslim world will still be there. They'll come to cash-strapped Russia with billions of petrorubles for Russia to arm them & lead them in a war to obliterate the now-disarmed Israel. That'll be the Gog-Magog war, where GOD will destroy 5/6 of the invaders, & Israel will realize JESUS IS MESSIAH & GOD'S SON, & come to Him! The whole event will occur & be over before the beast can act.
     
  6. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Active Member
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    The Holy Spirit dwells in the Children of God, the Church. The gates of hell shall not prevail against the Body of Christ, the Church.

    Rom 8:9 KJV - But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

    Mat 16:18 KJV - And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    When the Church is taken up, the Church empowered by the Holy Spirit, will not be on earth to restrain "the prince of the power of the air". Evil will have unrestrained rule.

    Eph 2:2 KJV - Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

    Following the rapture of the Church, the tribulation will ensue. While the restrainer is removed, God has made provisions for His love to be expressed to the inhabitants of earth.

    Rev 7:4 KJV - And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

    Who are the 144,000?
    "The 144,000 Jews are a sort of “first fruits” (Revelation 14:4) of a redeemed Israel which has been previously prophesied (Zechariah 12:10; Romans 11:25–27), and their mission seems to be to evangelize the post-rapture world and proclaim the gospel during the tribulation period. As a result of their ministry, millions—“a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language” (Revelation 7:9)—will come to faith in Christ."

    Praise be to God for His everlasting, unending love for His elect!
     
  7. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    That did not answer my question to you but merely attacked a strawman of your own making for I have never agreed to the definition you put forth, and so here is my question to you again in matters of the word "Holy Ghost":

    So, are you an "NKJV -NASV - ESV - NIV" [English translation] only person?" Yes or no.

    I cited other English translations which clearly use the words "Holy Ghost" and only in a single verse and so other translations may be cited yet still in other passages. Do you reject all English translations which use those words "Holy Ghost", Yes or no. For if "yes", you have positively answered ("yes") my question and thus the very definition of hypocrite is evidenced.
     
    #87 Alofa Atu, Jul 5, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
  8. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    So which is correct:

    NIV John 7:8-10

    8 You go to the festival. I am notb]">[b] going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” 9 After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee. 10 However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret.

    NKJV John 7:8-10

    8 You go up to this feast. I am not b]">[b]yet going up to this feast, for My time has not yet fully come.” 9 When He had said these things to them, He remained in Galilee.

    The Heavenly Scholar

    10 But when His brothers had gone up, then He also went up to the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.

    Which is correct, which one is the Bible? for the Two are not saying the same thing.

    NIV - "I am not going ..."
    NKJV - "I am not yet going ..."

    Another example:

    NIV Matthew 18:11

    VOID

    NKJV Matthew 18:11

    For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.

    Which is correct, which one is the Bible? for the Two are not saying the same thing.

    NIV - VOID
    NKJV - TEXT

    Another Example:

    ESV 1 John 5:7

    7 For there are three that testify:

    NKJV 1 John 5:7

    7 For there are three that bear witness a]">[a]in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

    Which is correct, which one is the Bible? for the Two are not saying the same thing.

    ESV - "... there are three that testify:"
    NKJV - "... there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit ..."

    How do you determine which is correct and what the Bible is, and where is the Bible then if not specifically one of the four you use seeing as they all clearly differ from one another in major statements?
     
  9. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Only 36 K will be Jews. The Jews are the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, & Levi ONLY. The rest are from the other tribes of Israel.
     
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    EASY ! Just use an eclectic mix & easily deduce what was actually written originally.

    The four GOSPELS all differ in the same version. Any one of them more-correct than the other?

    "Lord's Prayer in the KJV: Matthew6:
    9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.11 Give us this day our daily bread.12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.


    And in Luke 11, KJV -
    2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.3 Give us day by day our daily bread.4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.


    Which is correct?

    See how easy it is to quash pro-KJVO arguments?


    NOW...

    Can you provide any SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT for the KJVO myth? If not, it's automatically false!

    As for the restrainer of the beast, He's the Holy Spirit. No man or men could do so. When the time comes, God The Father will tell the Holy Spirit "Time to step aside from restraining the coming of the beast." He may already be born, or he may not be. We'll know when he comes. He will come from "nowhere", emerging as a charismatic character on the "world stage" & whatever he does will have positive results so people worldwide will come to love him.
     
  11. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Active Member
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    I consider the "children of Israel" as stated in Rev 7:14 to be Jews. Scripture states that there will be a remnant of 144 thousand.

    I am curious to know the source of "only 36 K will be Jews". (Other than robycop3)
     
  12. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    So you rely upon your fallen reasoning or power to "deduce". Got it. You actually use 'Your Version' and do so under the cover of other persons works such as the 4 you gave to justify "Your Version". That is what Peter called "private interpretation', or another way to put it is private translation, the "Your Version" translation. Thank you for clarifying that.

    You also just admitted that you do not believe that any Bible on earth in any language is what was "originally written", but you rather have to "deduce" what was "originally written", seeing that is so, that is tacit admission of not presently having in any location (except in the "Your Version" of your mind that you "deduced") what was "originally written" except as what you believe that appears in your mind.

    I do not believe any such thing.
     
  13. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    Both Gospels are correct as they record two differing instances of Jesus giving the said structure for prayer (following the sanctuary; Psalms 77:13).

    They are not the same event of the same instance.

    Matthew 6 is Jesus upon the Mount in the Sermon on the Mount (chapter 5-7), while in Luke 11 Jesus is in another place entirely differing.

    See how easy it is to debunk anti-KJB people when someone takes the time to read the scripture in its context in what it says, not in what others think it says in "Their Version".

    As a PS, the "Your (deduced) Version" will also differ tremendously from the 'Your (deduced) Version" of others who do as you do. They will differ in thousands of places from "Your Version", and so which of the "Your Versions" is the correct one? Yours or theirs?
     
    #93 Alofa Atu, Jul 7, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  14. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    I keep telling you I do not believe in your straw man phrase or definition of said phrase, but as you will.
     
  15. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    Let me know when you are actually going to answer my questions on the translations cited in the versions you gave, for some are in contradiction to the other in not merely one place, but in many, and all four are not in harmony as the 4 actual Gospels of the KJB are. There is not a single Gospel (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) that is in contradiction to any of the other 3 Gospels, as your 4 versions (and 5th the one you really use, the "Your Version" which has to contradict all the previous 4 you use as cover)
     
  16. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    I know them ("children of Israel", Rev. 7:14) to be specific Christians from scripture (evidence upon request).
     
  17. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Active Member
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    Rev 7:4 KJV - And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

    The 144.000 are composed of 12.000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel (Jews).
     
  18. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    Tribes of Israel, needs to be defined by scripture, not your whim. Each of the Tribes names represent character, and are given in a specific order which show the plan of redemption

    Now I Will Praise The LORD {JEHOVAH} (Judah) (for) Surely The LORD Hath Looked Upon My Affliction (Reuben) (and) Granted Good Fortune (Gad) (therefore) Happy Am I (Asher) (even though) With Great Wrestlings Have I Wrestled (Naphtali) (but) God Is Making Me To Forget All My Toil (Manasseh) (for) the LORD Hath Heard Me (Simeon) (being) Joined Unto Me (Levi) (and) He Has Purchased Me (Issachar) (wanting) To Dwell With Me (Zebulun) (and) The LORD Shall Add To Me (Joseph) (also) The Son Of His Right Hand (Benjamin).

    Revelation is NT in the light of Calvary.

    Jesus is the true Israel. (just as He is the true Adam, Joshua, Solomon, David, Levi, etc, etc)

    Adam

    Solomon

    Joshua

    Matthew 2:13-15 citing Hosea 11:1.

    Every disciple (Jew or Gentile) of Christ is Israel's (Jesus') children.

    Hebrews 2:13 citing Isaiah 8:16,18; and John 13:33, etc.

    Galatians 3:28; Colossians 3:11.

    There is the "Israel of God" Galatians 6:16 (Jesus and those in Him), and "Israel after the flesh" (Jacob of old).

    Jesus is the real "overcomer" and "Prince" with God.

    Revelation 3:21; John 16:33.; Acts 5:31.

    Notice:

    Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

    Gal_3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    Jesus was the promised seed from Genesis, renewed unto Abraham, etc.
     
    #98 Alofa Atu, Jul 7, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
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  19. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Active Member
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    Thanks for your reply. What happened to the tribe of Dan?
    Gen 49:16 KJV - Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel.

    OOOH - there I go again; another "whim"?

    Pro 16:18 KJV - Pride [goeth] before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
     
  20. Alofa Atu

    Alofa Atu Active Member

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    Dan is the description of your verse, Pro. 16:18 as he represented the 'serpent':

    Gen_49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

    Type of the devil, the lost children, judged.
     
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