The Russians Have Landed Planes Full Of Troops, Military Advisers In Venezuela

[asterisktom]

I meant Paul Ryan.

Agreed on him too. Especially.

 

[church mouse guy]

Yes, your responses to me have been A or B. Any criticism of the US means I am automatically a "leftist/socialist/communist" - your words. And you keep talking about "my side" versus your side. Anyone who speaks of sides is automatically imagining only A vs. B .

I do not want to be insulting (as you are to me). But I am trying to reason with you, Christian to Christian.

Unfortunately, you began by calling anyone who voted against Hillary as misguided.

 

[asterisktom]

Unfortunately, you began by calling anyone who voted against Hillary as misguided.

Never. When did I say that?

 

[church mouse guy]

Never. When did I say that?

Man, you know that you did. You showed your bias by making a disparaging remark.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

I am not trying to defend Russia's actions or intentions in the Americas. That is not the issue. My point was that our country has no right to complain about their exploits and exploitation in our hemisphere when we are pretty much doing the same thing right by their front door.

Not exactly, as there are two front doors right next to each other, and the USSR, aka Communist Russia, was driven out of the house of the one. Or have you so soon forgotten the plight of the Soviet Bloc countries? Or do you imagine they long for the good old days of Soviet domination?

The US is hypocritical when we talk about defending freedoms abroad. We are not defending freedoms. We are taking them away. I can think of a handful of countries where we made a big deal about free elections and then, when it came to the actual election and it became obvious that they were going to choose the wrong candidate. we move in and install our puppet. It happened in Vietnam in the 50s and in Central America also.

And perhaps my geography is a bit off, but I never considered Central America to be anywhere near Russia's front door, or even back. As for Viet Nam, I'd always thought of them as being near China, not Russia.

So which is worse: Godless communism or godless exploitive militarism? They are both bad.

As for choosing between godless communism and godless exploitive militarism, well, I have to admit you've got me there, as godless communism is godless exploitive militarism, and generally attains its immediate goals by murdering millions, even tens of millions.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

When we were visiting Nicaragua we got an earful from an older gent in Masaya, a town that has seen some military damage (some of it just last year). This man told us that both the Americans and Russians were personae non gratae. They were both big, bullying chess players - and the Nicaraguans were the pawns.

Your anecdotal evidence is noted and appreciated. But, as a rule, one person does not represent the masses. One can find many differences of opinion in most countries, at least where they are still allowed to express them. Call me biased, but the Russians have zero excuse for any military presence in Nicaragua, so I automatically place all of the blame squarely on them.

 

[asterisktom]

Man, you know that you did. You showed your bias by making a disparaging remark.

OK, I'm done writing about this. Possibly you have a reading disability. Either way I'm ignoring you.

 

[Benjamin]

I am not trying to defend Russia's actions or intentions in the Americas. That is not the issue.

But, that is exactly the issue, Russia’s intentions when landing troops in the Americas, "our" front door . That is what this thread is about.

My point was that our country has no right to complain about their exploits and exploitation in our hemisphere when we are pretty much doing the same thing right by their front door.

Your point [argument] that “our” country has no right to complain about their exploits because “we” take the action to defend others against our opposition right by their front door amounts to being disloyal to “our” country and values. You then attempt to back this up by going as far as to suggest “we” aren’t defending freedom?!? Your criticism of "our" true intentions are duly noted.

The US is hypocritical when we talk about defending freedoms abroad. We are not defending freedoms.

That is like arguing that it is hypocritical for me to beat down my nephew-in-law for physically attacking my niece. Yeah, how hypocritical of me to enforce my standards upon him in his own front yard no less! I guess I have no right to complain that he beats up my niece ever again. Sorry Niece, don’t call me because I have no right to defend you unless it is zone for zone action, I have to play by territorial rules or I’d be a hypocrite [an “explosive” individual] for saying I won’t put up with this violent behavior and then use violence to back it up.

NO SIR! My loyalty is to my niece and her children and I don’t bow to rules of equality for all, when it comes to dealing with a bully I MAKE THE RULES and they will favor my niece! THAT is where my loyalty lies, without questioning it and the opposition’s sense of fairness is unimportant. Choose your side carefully because I will cross your line!

I am not trying to defend Russia's actions or intentions in the Americas. That is not the issue.

Try or not you are clearly putting up a defense for the wrong team. Your lack of loyalty for “our” country is at issue for good reason.

So which is worse: Godless communism or godless exploitive militarism? They are both bad.

I'm taking this as the "godless exploitive militarism" is meant to define "our" country. Hmm, all I can say is that you can expect such criticism of "our" country's intentions and disloyalty to not go unchallenged...

 

[asterisktom]

Try or not you are clearly putting up a defense for the wrong team. Your lack of loyalty for “our” country is at issue for good reason.
...
I'm taking this as the "godless exploitive militarism" is meant to define "our" country. Hmm, all I can say is that you can expect such criticism of "our" country's intentions and disloyalty to not go unchallenged...

My loyalty is to the Kingdom of God. As Christians we are to render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's. You should open your eyes and heart to what our military is doing, for instance, to defenseless civilians in the Middle East. More have died in Afghanistan in 2018 than in any previous year. This is all on Trump's watch, the candidate who intimated that he would put a stop to our wars. "3,804 civilians died in 2018, including 930 children." according to the Washington Post.

That is our explosive militarism. What are we doing there? We are not defending our freedoms. We are taking away theirs.

Don't talk to me of disloyalty. I love what our country was - and could be again. Part of what I love about it is the right to criticize it.

I don't give a dam about your criticism.

 

[asterisktom]

Your anecdotal evidence is noted and appreciated. But, as a rule, one person does not represent the masses. One can find many differences of opinion in most countries, at least where they are still allowed to express them. Call me biased, but the Russians have zero excuse for any military presence in Nicaragua, so I automatically place all of the blame squarely on them.

My anecdotal evidence consists of much more than just one person. But, since you bring up this right to express opinions, let me say that the US does not have a great record either. I lost my history teaching job because I wouldn't stick with the prescribed text.

Yes, I agree, the Soviets have no right being in these little CA republics. But neither should the US. We shouldn't have supported right-wing death squad dictators in power like we did in several countries.

One good quote from Nietzsche (maybe the only one!) is:

"Beware that in fighting the dragon you do not become the dragon."

 

[Adonia]

Yes, I agree, the Soviets have no right being in these little CA republics. But neither should the US. We shouldn't have supported right-wing death squad dictators in power like we did in several countries.

Also, in the 1930's we sent our Marines over there to make those places safer for our large corporations. We created Panama from the country of Columbia for the Panama Canal and installed our own people to run the canal zone and our hand picked Panamanians to run the new country.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

My anecdotal evidence consists of much more than just one person. But, since you bring up this right to express opinions, let me say that the US does not have a great record either. I lost my history teaching job because I wouldn't stick with the prescribed text.

With all the leftwing nuttiness being pushed in the schools, colleges, and universities, there has been too little real education. History is bound to change. It is the nature of the beast.

Far more important is the ability to evaluate what is being presented: what information may be lacking, whose perspective may be missing, what questions need to be asked, how closely does it align with reality, etc.

Yes, I agree, the Soviets have no right being in these little CA republics. But neither should the US. We shouldn't have supported right-wing death squad dictators in power like we did in several countries.

One good quote from Nietzsche (maybe the only one!) is:
"Beware that in fighting the dragon you do not become the dragon."

Imperfection is inevitable.
Without God at the core and at the fore, being another dragon is inevitable. Communism, especially Soviet backed Communism, has proven that the new dragon can be far worse than the old.