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Featured The Sanctity of Life...Body,Spirit, and Soul

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Darrell C, Apr 9, 2017.

  1. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    This is a follow up of, oddly enough, a thread about cigars that was derailed. So let's create a new track and run this train down the line. There is a link to the previous thread (hit the arrow).

    I invite anyone interested to weigh in on this examination of Exodus 21:22-25, as well as the issue of whether the Body, Spirit, and Soul of men are three separate components of man's existence.



    Nothing indicates she was 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, or 9 months pregnant, only that she was.
    [/QUOTE]

    First, abortion is a determined course of action designed to end the life of a child in the womb, and the context here is that of an accidental injury to a pregnant woman.

    Secondly, the pregnancy is obviously late term as a miscarriage that results in instantaneous death of the unborn child does not allow for the question of whether there is injury after her "fruit departs from her."




    I think most would agree (those who are not trying to argue a pro-choice view, that is) that if a child departs from his/her (not "it") mother's womb as a result of a fight between two clods that premature birth cannot be denied.


    And I pointed out the errors. Some of those errors are in part to further error in understanding of the soul and the spirit of man. Some of them are an interjection of traditional Jewish belief. Some of it seems to be guesswork.

    None of it is based on actual Scripture.


    What carnal men do is precisely the issue, which is why the Law is given to govern those carnal men, both in an attempt to dissuade them from this course of action as well as to bring about Justice if they do.


    Again...you still overlook the fact that Life for Life is invoked.

    Yes, it follows after the child departs from the womb. That is not in question.


    More irrelevancy.

    The point is that being "dependent on the mother" prior to birth is not relevant, as the child is still dependent on the mother after birth.

    You're secular philosophy that appeals to Science (and poorly I might add) does not change the context of our text, nor does it provide a basis for making the child in the womb a lifeless...thing.


    The mother is necessary, particularly in those times, where running down to grab some Infamil was not an option. If the mother had died in the process and the child survived...the child is still dependent on someone to keep them alive.

    This is about as absurd an argument as I think I have run across in a while. And for what? To support a Liberal view?


    The text speaks of both the child in the womb, as well as the child prematurely departing the womb due to a fight.

    I think the NASB was one of the translations you appealed to (forgive me if I am wrong, been busy for a while), so here is their translation:

    Exodus 21:22-25
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)


    22 “If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that a]">[a]she gives birth prematurely, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband b]">[b]may demand of him, and he shall pay c]">[c]as the judges decide.

    23 But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life,

    24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

    25 burn for burn, wound for wound, d]">[d]bruise for bruise.


    Footnotes:

    1. Exodus 21:22 Or an untimely birth occurs; lit her children come out
    2. Exodus 21:22 Lit lays on him
    3. Exodus 21:22 Lit by arbitration
    4. Exodus 21:25 Lit welt





     
    #1 Darrell C, Apr 9, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2017
  2. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    And...?

    Note that Adam became a living soul, not that he was given a soul.


    Not "scripture" that I recognize.

    I am not Catholic, nor am I liberal in my views towards Scripture.


    That is correct, a person that is alive is a living soul, that is...a person. A person has a body and a spirit, they are...a living soul.

    A baby has a spirit and a body, hence, when the injury to the child in the womb is death, the life of the offender is forfeit in exchange for their life. There is no distinction that this applies to the mother, but to both.


    Physical blood is not the "life" of a living soul, their spirit is. The passage you ignored shows Christ's confirmation of that. When the spirit, not the blood, departs from a person, they die. One can have a blood transfusion from another person and the life of that individual, that is, what makes that individual a distinct person, does not get transfused into the person receiving the transfusion.

    A spirit is distinct to every individual, and cannot be passed to another as blood can be.

    And...earthling? lol

    The text shows that the fruit of a woman is a distinct life that requires the life of those that kill that life.


    The spirit, not the soul, is that which God gives those, along with a physical body.


    For the most part, yes, because the natural man has a spirit and a body, and is natural until he receives life from God, which does not take place at conception, does not take place at birth, and is not achieved at any point in a man's life through works which he performs. The "LIFE" in view is the life that Christ came to give, which He bestowed through New Covenant relationship, at which time men are restored to the relationship lost in Adam. They are reconciled to God through being brought into union with God.

    This is being Baptized with the Holy Ghost. It is being immersed into GOd, and men then have life on a spiritual plane, which is the life of God. We have life because we are now in God.



    "It?"

    Your liberal indoctrination shows.

    As far as "picking and choosing to believe the truth," the simple fact is that natural man has no capacity for the spiritual things of God, and it is necessary that God reveal this truth to the natural man.

    This is the Ministry that the Comforter performs in the hearts of men today, and it did not begin to take place until Pentecost, when Christ sent the Comforter (which could not occur while He remained.


    1 Corinthians 2:14
    King James Version (KJV)

    14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.



    Continued...
     
  3. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    And you deny life beginning at breath...


    On the contrary, every "soul" has a body, though properly we still consider a spirit that has departed the physical body a soul, because they are still...a person.


    Acts 7:14
    King James Version (KJV)

    14 Then sent Joseph, and called his father Jacob to him, and all his kindred, threescore and fifteen souls.



    Did Joseph send for the immaterial aspect of these people? Or does he send for these people?


    The "soul in the body becomes corrupt?"

    The physical process in total is plagued with corruption. Children are not born pure and then become corrupt, that is not the problem. The problem is that because they are born without the Life of GOd (which is the Life Christ came to bestow upon men), they ave no capacity for anything but corruption.


    They are dead to God because they are dead spiritually, and this is because they are not in union with GOd, and have not the Spirit of God in eternal union, as we do when we are reconciled to God through Christ.


    The only life men have is physical, they have no spiritual life. The "Second Death" is eternal separation from God, as contrasted with the separation they are born into in the physical realm.


    Sorry, no. Demons are spiritual beings are not not "Heavenly." Men have spirits and they are not heavenly. Animals have spirits and are not heavenly.


    Agree with this for the most part.

    But not this...

    "The living soul" is the individual, and from a physical perspective there is no change at the time of conversion.

    Regeneration is a spiritual resurrection, whereas physical resurrection awaits the Rapture (for the Church in existence at the time of the Rapture, both living and dead...those saved after the Rapture are resurrected at different times).


    Sorry, no, the body at no time becomes pure, as it is still in need of redemption:


    Romans 8:23
    King James Version (KJV)

    23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.




    Continued...
     
  4. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    This is the promise of God in the Old Testament:



    Ezekiel 36:22-27
    King James Version (KJV)

    22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

    23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

    24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

    25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.





    Also God's Promise:


    Ezekiel 36:22-27
    King James Version (KJV)

    22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

    23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

    24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

    25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.



    Though nothing in the text says the "new spirit is placed in the new heart."

    This "spirit" is most likely applicable to man's thoughts (i.e., a spirit of fear). The new heart also speaks to man's thoughts and intents, which is likely why it is placed in such close proximity to the new spirit (in the text).


    Nothing about a changed body in the Promise, because that is...New Testament Revelation, a Mystery, not previously revealed to men.

    But we can't miss the most important aspect of regeneration:


    Ezekiel 36:22-27
    King James Version (KJV)

    22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

    23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

    24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

    25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.




    Continued...
     
  5. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    What "changes in the body?"

    Could you please provide a Scriptural basis for this statement?

    There is no "new body" for the Spirit of God to enter...He enters the one we are born with.

    We have a new spirit and new heart, not because God needs something "to go into," but we have a new heart and spirit because God enters into us.


    Agree for the most part, though I would distinguish the fact fact that Christ did not reveal much which is revealed to us today (during His Ministry). That is the very reason for sending the Comforter, and the primary Revelation given men through His Ministry is the Gospel of Christ, that men might be reconciled to GOdm thus receive life which they at no time possessed previously.

    That is...Life Eternal, which is, again, due to the indwelling of God.


    Sorry, no, a living soul cannot go to Heaven, they must depart from the body and enter in their spirit:


    1 Corinthians 15:50
    King James Version (KJV)

    50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.





    Could you show me where Scripture teaches that "heaven is now Paradise?"


    Where? Where do we see "the new spirit of man goes to God's hands?"


    Agree, though "dead in Christ" is not a Biblical concept. They will have to be physically alive as well as alive in Christ (not dead in Christ) to be raptured. The "dead in Christ" are physically dead.


    Men do not receive their souls or spirits at the rapture...the soul/spirit/person is reunited with a resurrected body which is glorified (and again I am distinguishing the Rapture, not the other resurrections which take place, each of which have to be held within their own context in order to understand what is distinctive about them).


    A "soul" can have a spirit and a body, but a soul can also be one departed from his body, as seen in numerous places.

    "Soul" primarily refers to the person as a whole, but certain passages can be seen to distinguish a particular condition.



    Show me one Scripture where this is true.


    Ultimately, yes, but not until the Eternal State. At that time all souls (persons) will be changed in spirit and body for everlasting existence. Both the saved as well as the lost.


    Sorry, but the conversion of man is wholly the work of Holy God. Man does not achieve this through faithfulness. That is a damnable doctrine of Catholics as well as pretty much every other works-based religion known to man.


    Paul prays that a person be preserved wholly.

    Nothing in there about the error you are teaching in the previous statements.


    This is true.


    On the contrary...the natural man has no life to depart from him.


    While you might try to argue this one as you have Exodus 21, the simple truth here is that men can only kill the body of men, they cannot kill the spirit. Secondly, the destruction here is not annihilation (which is the usual heresy derived by those with erroneous understanding of what the word soul means in Scripture), but, an existing state of destruction.

    Consider the word used:


    Matthew 10:28
    King James Version (KJV)

    28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


    The same word is used here...


    Matthew 10:5-6
    King James Version (KJV)

    5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

    6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.



    ...and here...

    Matthew 15:24
    King James Version (KJV)

    24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.



    The point is this: Israel had not ceased to exist, had she? Yet she was destroyed. She was in a state of destruction.

    The same concept is seen in men being physically alive yet having no spiritual life. Thus can the "dead bury their dead."


    This...

    Matthew 10:28
    King James Version (KJV)

    28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.



    ...speaks of the person (soul) as well as the physical body in a state of destruction...in Hell. This is what "men cannot do (to another man), they can only kill the body. And it does not say God "kills the soul and body in Hell," but destroys them.

    This is not annihilation, and when we look at all of Christ's and the Apostles' teachings concerning Hell, we can in no way justify the heresy of Annihilation.


    God bless.
     
  6. Happy

    Happy Well-Known Member
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    God formed man. I say a FORM is the BODY. I say God called that Body, man. I say that Body was made from Dust OF the Earth, and returns to Dust OF the Earth.

    God IS LIFE. And Nothing has LIFE "in it", but that which God has "given (imparted) Life into it".

    A body FORMED by God is the first step of God MAKING a man. Yeah! However without LIFE IN IT, the body has NO LIFE of it's own.

    WHEN God "imparted" LIFE "into" Adams body, THEN Adam's Body became ALIVE.

    HOW God "imparted" LIFE "into" Adams body, WAS via Gods Breath, called the "breath of life"!

    AFTER God "imparted" LIFE "into" Adams body, we are notified Adam IS a "LIVING" soul.

    NOTHING, teaches Adam was NO LONGER a body, or a man.

    Now we know, Adam IS a man AND a LIVING soul.

    So Adam's body IS Adam AND Adam's LIVING soul IS Adam.

    Adam's BODY was formed from Dust OF the Earth.

    And Adam's Living SOUL was imparted into Adam's Body (through his nostrils) Via God blowing His Breath INTO Adam.

    Two Separate "things",
    Two Separate "things" at Two Separate times.
    Two Separate "things" FROM Two Separate "things/places" (ie Dust and Gods breath)

    Each "thing", Body and Living Soul having Separate "functions" of ONE man.
    Each "thing", Body and Living Soul with the Same "identity" of ONE man.

    All Bodies, are "sentenced" to DEATH.
    All Bodies, SHALL "fulfill" their "sentence" OF DEATH.

    Nothing in Scripture notifies us that "Living Souls" are ALL, "sentenced" to Death.

    AND DEATH, itself has more than one meaning;

    There is PHYSICAL DEATH, and SPIRITUAL DEATH.

    Physical Death has to do with what is Physical ~ ie the Body. <--- MADE from a Physically existing element, called EARTH <--- which EARTH is Dry LAND.

    Spiritual Death has to do with what is Spiritual ~ ie the Living Soul. <--- GIVEN ~ imparted INTO a Physical Body.

    Death in ANY form IS a "separation" from LIFE. And God is Life.

    Gen 2
    [7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    Two events ^
    The Forming of man ~
    The imparting of LIFE into the man ~

    Man (ie body) AND living (soul) IS ONE individual KIND of thing, with LIFE in him.

    THE WOMAN ~ made from the bone of MAN whose body is formed from dust.
    THE WOMAN ~ is also DUST, as in the day God made them "male AND female" and called "them" ....
    Man, Woman, Adam.

    Gen.5
    [1] This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
    [2] Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

    God called man AND woman Adam. God called man AND woman one flesh. God called the woman, wife. God called the woman a help meet. (ie helpmate).

    Adam called the woman Eve.

    The woman DID NOT "stop" being Woman, because she was called, "wife" or "Eve".

    Neither did Adam "stop" being a Man, because he was called, "a living soul"!

    A body is PHYSICAL, the Living Soul is SPIRITUAL.

    Bodies PHYSICALLY die ~ Spiritual Living Souls do not "physically" die.
     
  7. Happy

    Happy Well-Known Member
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    Abort is to stop the process of ANYTHING.

    Abortion refers specifically to STOP the process of a fetus forming in the womb.

    Scripture informs us: God FORMED Adam from the earth AND imparted LIFE into Him, through His nostrils, AFTER Adam was FORMED.

    Scripture informs us: God FORMS mankind's BODY "in the womb" of a woman.

    Nothing in Scripture informs us: God breaths LIFE into a BODY, "in the process of being FORMED".

    Injury of a fetus in the womb, absolutely can be caused BY physical HARM to the woman. (ie hitting, punching, rough handling, poison, etc.)

    This ISSUE in Scripture of your reference was about a man, other than the woman's husband, in some way causing the pregnant wife of the other man, to go into labor and deliver the baby.

    IF the baby, once delivered survives ~ the husband of the woman was given the right to decide the other mans punishment.

    IF the baby, once delivered ~ doesn't survive ~ the man who caused the injury to the woman was subject to a death sentence.
     
  8. Happy

    Happy Well-Known Member
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    No. You pointed out your disagreement.

    Man IS a body.
    Man receives A "living soul", thus is ALSO identified By his Body and his Living Soul.

    ALL men HAVE a "spirit of man".

    A "spirit of man" IS a natural thing.....just like a man's mind, body, heart, organs, bones, blood, etc.

    Being made in the LIKENESS of God only requires one to LOOK at the KNOWLEDGE given us ABOUT God, to comprehend what ALSO applies to man.

    WHAT IS the Spirit of God? Pure TRUTH.
    WHAT IS the NAME God gave His Pure TRUTH? JESUS

    What IS the "spirit of man"? A man's "TRUTH". Is it "PURE"? No. Why? Because man DOES NOT HAVE ALL KNOWLEDGE. Thus ~ man must hear, learn, read, experiment, etc......"THEN decide, conclude, logically decide WHAT he believes is TRUE".

    The mans TRUTH, settles in the thoughts of the HEART.
    The mans MIND, can continue to learn, logically conclude, think, ponder, wonder, guess, deceive, etc.....
    .....all the while what the man KNOWS as his TRUTH, can be hidden and kept private in the thoughts of his heart.

    Scripture teaches ~ the mans BODY is subject to death.

    Because the BODY is vile, EVERYTHING "IN" the body becomes "subject to becoming corrupt".

    The mans Natural Truth, in the thoughts of his heart.
    The mans Natural Mind, in the thoughts of his brain.
    The mans Natural body itself, organs, blood, bones, etc, subject to diseases and ailments.
    The mans Spiritual living soul, subject to corruption.

    And ALL of those "things", is From beginning to ending of Scripture TAUGHT, ONLY God can restore, change and MAKE "those things", ACCEPTABLE unto Him....ACCORDING to His Way, not mans "way".

    Pss.23
    [3] He restoreth my soul:

    Phil.3
    1. [21] Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
    Ezek.18
    [31] Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit:

    Rom.12

    [2] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind,

     
  9. Happy

    Happy Well-Known Member
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    Not true.
     
  10. Happy

    Happy Well-Known Member
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    It has NOTHING whatsoever to do with philosophy.

    The body IS a "thing"! It's a form, a creature, something visible to manKIND'S eyes.

    The "thing" in Mary's womb, was Holy, and revealed unto manKIND'S eyes.

    Luke.1
    1. [35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

    " a lifeless thing" is your words, NOT MINE".

    The LIFE "OF" man is his BLOOD.
    The LIFE "IN" man is his LIVING SOUL.
    The FOREVER LIFE "IN" a man is his QUICKENED SPIRIT. (ie his NEW spirit, birthed from Gods Seed).

    A body in the process of BEING FORMED, is "sustained" by dependency on the MOTHERS BLOOD, ie the MOTHERS LIFE.
     
    #10 Happy, Apr 10, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
  11. Happy

    Happy Well-Known Member
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    I do not agree comprehending the KNOWLEDGE of God, is either irrelevant or liberal.

    Your interjection of such implication is merely a deflection and has zero to do with the truth.
     
  12. Happy

    Happy Well-Known Member
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    The woman BECAME the wife.....did she STOP being a woman?
    A man BECOMES the husband....does he STOP being a man?

    Your argument implies a man BECOMING a living soul, means he stops being what he was.

    I was very explicit ~ a man is a formed body. A man receives a living soul and that Living soul IS ALSO the man.

    Every THING that pertains to ONE MAN, "IS" that ONE MAN. His body, His living soul, His spirit, His new spirit, His restored living soul, His word, His heart, His lungs, etc. ALL His ONE IDENTITY!

    And the FACT is....ALL of those things of man-KIND, are and become CORRUPT.

    The WHOLE Big picture of Gods WAY, is HOW TO, become "UN-corrupt". Anew, restored, changed, quickened, aka WHOLE, and WHOLLY acceptable to BE adopted by God, BE His son, Be His inheritance, Be forever WITH Him, Be a member of His Church, Be an occupant of His Kingdom!
    And He be your God and King.


    A fetus does not have a spirit! A fetus is in the process of a formING body. It doesn't have a truth.

    A born baby however DOES have a "natural" spirit. It sees, hears, feels, utters sounds, tastes....etc.
    It quickly learns trust. We can call it "bonding", however the truth is a baby trusts who feeds, comforts, holds, soothes, talks to, etc. the baby.


    I never said "blood" is the life of a living soul!

    Blood is the LIFE "OF" the BODY.

    Gods Breath is the LIFE "OF" a "soul"!

    Gods Seed is the LIFE "OF" a mans "born again" spirit!

     
  13. Happy

    Happy Well-Known Member
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    Note ~ Adam was created bodily.

    Note ~ God blew in Adams bodily nostrils.

    God blowing INTO Adam (bodily) is precisely God "giving" Adam something, and it is called a LIVING soul.
     
  14. Happy

    Happy Well-Known Member
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    There is no "new body" YET. However there IS a new heart. A heart that is pure and satisfactory for the TRUTH / Spirit / Christ of God to indwell.

    Be it a body, a soul, a heart <--- those are simply vessels, which can HOLD life. God IS life and the giver OF life, by the presence of His LIFE "in such vessels".

    The body is an "earthen" vessel.... it can be active with life, which IS its blood, or the blood can stop flowing, the heart stop pumping and the "vessel" physically dies.

    The "living soul" IN the body, departs....WHEN the body physically dies. The soul does not die, IF it has been "restored", it is thus "saved" unto God, and continues living.

    The "living soul" OF an "unsaved" man, also continues living, WAITING for judgement.

    Judgement OF an "unsaved" man, is for life to depart from his body and his soul, and his body AND soul destroyed in hell.

    Reward OF a "saved" man, is WHEN Christ Jesus returns, He has with Him, the "saved souls", their "quickened spirits", and their body is called up from the grave, meets Christ Jesus in the air, their body is CHANGED, and their "saved souls" and "quickened spirits" are imparted into their "glorious body".

    Consequence OF and "unsaved" man, is his dead body is raised into hell, his living soul in hell is imparted back into his corrupt body, he stands before Christ, praises Jesus, bows to Him, confesses belief, then they are given their "sentence", which is LIFE is departed from their body, and from their living soul and their soul and body destroyed in hell.

    Since they did NOT receive a "new heart" or a "new spirit". The Spirit of God was not with them, nor did they receive their own everlasting "new spirit", THUS, when their body and soul is destroyed, NOTHING of them continues in life. AH - God is merciful ~ the "unsaved" man does NOT continue in everlasting life separated from God.....as do fallen angels who are living spirits.
     
  15. Happy

    Happy Well-Known Member
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    Independent life begins when God breaths into a body.

    Yes. Why do you think a soul requires "restoring"?

    I never said children were born "pure". All earthlings (humans) which are a KIND of thing, are born IN SIN.

    How do you think men of the OT became saints, BEFORE Christ came to bestow Life upon men?


    Precisely!


    Angels were all created heavenly spirits. Their "estate" was heaven. As heavenly spirits began to defy God, their "estate" moved from "heaven" to earth, as they were "cast" down. Some angels were so bad, they were "cast" down to hell and await judgement.

    An animal is a KIND of thing.
    Animals are KINDs of things.
    Man is a KIND of thing.

    Man can and does SIN.
    Animals do not SIN

    Both Animals AND Mankind have a soul, which IS the Breath of Life, given the KIND of thing, By Gods Breath.

    Man comes from a seed. Animals come from a seed. And to every seed, God give the KIND of "thing", it's body.

    Bodies of men SIN. And when the bodies of men SIN, they corrupt what is IN their body.

    Man KIND, has many "members", physical AND spiritual. The physical is the inner and outer of man. The spiritual is currently ONLY "inner" and "remains" "unseen" to a mans eye.

    All men have an INNER soul. As you know, not all men have a QUICKENED spirit, which is accomplished ONLY by Gods Seed, within the man, ie born again.

    Phil.3
    1. [21] Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

    No kidding. I already spoke of Christ returning and CHANGING bodies then.
     
    #15 Happy, Apr 10, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
  16. Happy

    Happy Well-Known Member
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    And?
     
  17. Happy

    Happy Well-Known Member
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    Blood is the life of the man/body/creature.

    Blood is what God requires of the man, which results in the mans physical death.

    A living soul is what quickens a body to living.

    Not every man receives a NEW spirit.

    Every man born alive receives a living soul.

    The body is subject to physical death.

    The living soul continues living AFTER physical death.
     
  18. Happy

    Happy Well-Known Member
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    Paradise ~

    A corrupt man (which applies to all men born of the earth), WHO becomes acceptable unto God, shall have forever life. Forever life consists of fulfilling the death and sanctification of their body, a living soul and quickened spirit. When the body dies, the soul and spirit depart the dying body. The spirit goes to Gods hands, the living soul is kept alive via the Tree of Life. The Tree of Life is located IN PARADISE.

    It is the location of WHERE the Tree of Life is, that notifies us of where Paradise is, and where departed living souls are, OF faithful deceased men.

    The Tree of Life - was first located in the Garden of Eden -
    The Tree of Life - was next located in the comfort side of hell -
    The Tree of Life - is now located in heaven -
    The Tree of Life - shall next be located again on earth in Christ Jesus' Kingdom

    If you seek a simple one-liner that gives you the knowledge, it doesn't exist. Scriptural knowledge requires reading and studying and seeking.

    Spirit goes to Gods hands ~

    Jesus our teacher by example reveals this knowledge along with other scriptures and study and understanding revealed to the individual.

    Pss.31
    1. [5] Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of truth.
    Luke.23
    1. [46] And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
    Acts.7
    1. [59] And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
     
  19. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Is the blood the median through which spirit/life flows to the flesh making the person of flesh and therefore bones, soul, living?

    That is my understanding of Lev. 17:11 Darby for the soul of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that maketh atonement for the soul. The breath of lives is in the blood.

    Christ poured out his soul unto death when he said, "Father into your hands I commend my spirit." Spirit/life departed from the blood. Death came to the soul in the flesh? <That's a question. That which was made from the ground was no longer living, ie flesh and bones?
     
  20. Happy

    Happy Well-Known Member
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    Lev 17
    [11] For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

    Blood is the life of the creature.

    The Soul is the breath of life from God.

    The Soul quickens the body into living. (ie ~ brings the body, starts the body, into living)

    The Blood KEEPS (ie maintains) the body living.

    The breath of life (living soul) remains IN the body as long as the blood is flowing, pumping the heart.

    The flesh body IS corrupt, from a Corrupt seed, (ie man's sperm).

    That which is IN the body becomes corrupt, ie the natural, spirit of man, living soul, blood, heart, mind, thoughts, etc.

    According to Gods "order" ie WAY ~ a man must become CHANGED to become ACCEPTABLE unto the Lord.

    A man MUST believe, trust, be faithful, be forgiven, willfully give his body unto death (Crucified with Christ), become sanctified, justified, have his living soul "restored" (Saved), have a new heart (circumcision of the heart), have a new spirit (born again of Gods Seed), receive the indwelling of Gods Holy Spirit, be accounted in Heaven as having BECOME WHOLE.

    We DO NOT SEE the transformation of OUR living soul restored (saved).
    We DO NOT SEE the transformation of OUR spirit quickened (born again).
    We DO NOT SEE the transformation of OUR body changed (into a glorious body).

    However God IS QUICK and is He WHO QUICKENS and He WHO does not "WAIT" to SEE.
    What He says IS DONE.

    Gen.9
    [4] But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof,

    [5] And surely your blood of your lives will I require;

    Gen.2
    [7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

    1 Cor 15
    50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

    Rom 2
    [29] But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    1Thes.5



      • [23] And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    Matt 9:
    [22] But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.

    Acts.9
    [34] And Peter said unto him, Aeneas, Jesus Christ maketh thee whole:

    John.5
    1. [21] For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
    Eph.2
    1. [1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
    1Tim.6
    [13] I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things,

    1Pet.3
    1. [18] For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
    2Tim.4
    1. [1] I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

    Ecc 3
    [15] That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.
     
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