peter agrees with me there!
The Saved Backslider
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by rockytopva, Apr 11, 2020.
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Thessalonians 2:13 clearly teaches people are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth.
We were not "individually" chosen before the foundation of the world, but God did choose His redeemer, His Lamb of God, and therefore all those His Redeemer will redeem were chosen corporately "in Him" before the foundation of the world.
As I said every person saved is chosen for salvation, and Gentiles are saved. Thus scripture "clearly states" that Gentiles are among the elect. -
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Notice that the word "might" is not a definet insurance because it is up to Christ whether He saves us or not.Many have asked for Salvation, but until Christ see's they have faith they are not saved.
MB
MB -
2) Agreed, almost any person can believe and be saved, provided he or she has not become like soil #1 of Matthew 13.
3) I know of no verse that says God chose the "whole world."
4) Yes, election for salvation is different than being a part of Abraham's blood line, which was chosen to carry out God's plan.
5) Certainly Gentiles become part of Abraham's descendants, Galatians 3.
6) God chose each individual person for salvation, you continue to deny 2 Thessalonians 2:13.
7) I agree we placed our faith in Christ so that we "might" be saved. Salvation comes when God alone credits our faith as righteousness which results in our being chosen and placed in Christ. It is a logical necessity that in order for God to set us apart in Christ, God must "choose" to set us apart in Christ. All this denial of election is nonsense. -
1) So you deny that soil #1 of Matthew 13 was unable to understand the gospel?
2) So you deny that 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says chosen for salvation? -
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Yeshua1 said: ↑God must first choose us, as then we will be enabled by him to choose Christ!Click to expand...
1) So you deny that soil #1 of Matthew 13 was unable to understand the gospel?
2) So you deny that 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says chosen for salvation? -
Could anyone tell is MB accepts some people have lost the ability to understand and therefore accept the gospel? He dodged the question.
Could anyone tell if MB accepts that everyone save was chosen for salvation? Neither could I. -
rockytopva said: ↑...If we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. - Hebrews 10:26Click to expand...
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Calminian said: ↑This is regarding a pre-salvation state. It's clear reading the context through vs. 39, which concludes, "But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved."Click to expand...
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MB said: ↑I do not believe that Christ leaves anyone out like the Calvinist. Any man can believe and be saved.......MBClick to expand...
He does not say... they are not His sheep because they don’t believe. He says they don’t believe because they are not His sheep.
That indicates to me they are unable to believe.
peace to you -
Yeshua1 said: ↑That passage direct towards jews who were professing Jesus was messiah, but decided that His death was not atonement enough, and needed OT sacrifices still!Click to expand...
Heb. 10:39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.
Same is true is Her. 6.
Heb. 6:9 Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case—the things that have to do with salvation. -
canadyjd said: ↑In John 10:26, Jesus said, “you do not believe because you are not of my sheep...”
He does not say... they are not His sheep because they don’t believe. He says they don’t believe because they are not His sheep.
That indicates to me they are unable to believe.
peace to youClick to expand...
MB -
Van said: ↑Could anyone tell is MB accepts some people have lost the ability to understand and therefore accept the gospel? He dodged the question.
Could anyone tell if MB accepts that everyone save was chosen for salvation? Neither could I.Click to expand...
This is your tactic.
MB -
MB said: ↑They were not His sheep because they would not follow Christ. Jn 10 Proves that election has nothing to do with Salvation. These were Jews whom He was speaking to. They chose there path and it was not Christ. You see it as being unable. A sheep is one who Believes in Christ. We aren't sheep until we do believe.
MBClick to expand...
Jesus said He knew His sheep and called them by name. Once He called them, they followed and none were lost. Jesus said it, don’t change it.
Jesus knew His sheep by name before they followed Him. That is what He said.
peace to you -
Van said: ↑Could anyone tell is MB accepts some people have lost the ability to understand and therefore accept the gospel? He dodged the question.
Could anyone tell if MB accepts that everyone saved was chosen for salvation? Neither could I.Click to expand...
Calvinists say we were elect before creation, and then compelled to believe by irresistible grace. MB knows this view is bogus, but has (in my opinion) thrown the baby out with the bath water. We are individually elected (chosen for salvation) on the basis of faith in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13. So rather than being chosen individually before creation, we are chosen individually on the basis of God crediting our faith in Christ as righteousness, Romans 4:3-4, Romans 4:23-24. This election occurs during our lifetime, after we have trusted fully in Christ, and is not an election based on foreseen faith that occurred before creation. -
Van said: ↑Scripture teaches that some people have hardened their hearts by the practice of sin that they can no longer even understand the gospel, let alone accept it......Click to expand...
peace to you
peace to you
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