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There is No “Priority” Greek Text

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by SavedByGrace, Oct 6, 2020.

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  1. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Nicely said. I teach Greek, and still have some way to go.

    Got my students started on thinking about verbal aspect today (something I still need to work on), and got a lot of blank looks when I ran around the classroom and asked what kind of action they were seeing (imperfective).
     
  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    thanks for the update, quite useful. I don't think that the "Lucian Recension" for the NT has ever been proven (I could be wrong), though he did work on the OT, which Jerome makes mention of as, "exemplaria Lucianea". Lucian himself was a heretic with his buddy Arius!
     
  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I have disagreement with ὑπάρχων as used in Philippians 2:6, where the Analytical Greek lexicons say the Participle is in "present" tense. I would say correctly it should be "imperfect", as I have NT examples to show just this.
     
  4. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Unfortunately for your theory, koine Greek did not have imperfect participles. (I'd be happy to repent if you can name a grammar that says they do.) It only had present, aorist, and future participles.

    But fortunately for your exegesis, the aspect of any present tense form can be either aoristic or imperfective, so you can interpret the present participle in Phil. 2:6 as imperfective--a continuing state of being.
     
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  5. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    You are correct. The Lucian Recension remains an unproven theory of W & H, with virtually no extant historical documents to prove it.
     
  6. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    indeed you are quite right on this
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Do you follow and accept then all that Dean Burgon wrote on textual criticism?
     
  8. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I have not read all that he has written, so can't say for sure.
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    How do you regard Dr Wallace as a Greek expert?
     
  10. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Respectfully,
    I don't engage in "textual criticism", at least with regard to the Textus Receptus Greek and the Ben Chayyim Hebrew.
    I do criticize the others when it comes to both origen and usage.

    I know in my spirit that the TR and Ben Chayyim are the words of God preserved for His children, and any faithful and meticulous translation that comes from them, in any language, will be the word of God if it's done with honest accuracy and integrity.
    To me, the "priority" Greek Text is the TR which is mainly "Byzantine" in origin and preservation.
    I have no reason to doubt it, and no reason to prove its validity.

    I also know, in my heart, that anything outside of these two is not to be trusted, and to me, it doesn't "feel right", spiritually speaking.
    In other words, I know my Saviour's voice, and I follow Him ( John 10:27 ).

    While I do believe that many of God's words can be found in the others, I do not trust them as I do the ones that I have referenced above.
    As for the "Critical Text" that I've come to understand is basically a 1-2% representation of the MT,
    I wouldn't recommend its usage to anyone for any reason, except as a good example of what to leave alone and to totally ignore.

    I've read extensively on the subject, done a fair bit of research, and without going any deeper than where I'm currently at, I long ago satisfied myself with sticking to what I started with 42+ years ago when the Lord called me by His Gospel...
    The AV in the English and the TR and Ben Chayyim as the sources.

    So far, no one has been able to convince me that the whole "textual criticism" movement is anything other than a very concerted effort on the part of certain powers-that-be to water down God's word and to cause people to doubt it...
    And I don't see that ending anytime soon.

    In fact, I hold that these are the last of the last days, and the merry-go-round money-making machine that is "textual criticism" is only going to spin ever faster and get more confusing as the time of His coming draws nearer.



    May God bless you with ever-increasing wisdom and knowledge in your studies of His precious word.
     
    #130 Dave G, Oct 10, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
  11. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    He's a brilliant scholar, but I disagree with him on some things.
     
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  12. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    So, which TR is the right one? They differ many times. (See my thread on Matt.)

    Does this mean you disapprove of the textual criticism the translators of the KJV did? What about the textual criticism of Erasmus, Beza, Stephanus, and Scrivener that produced the TR?
     
  13. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    You cannot logically agree with much that Burgon wrote, since you oppose the Byz. Textform as being an attack on God's Word. Burgon would have loved it. :p
     
  14. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Oops, I meant to say, "His K does not include Sinaiticus, Vaticanus, and Ephraemi (א, B, C). They are included by Von Soden in his H (Hesychian) text.
     
  15. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    sorry, buddy, you got this wrong! I was attacking the omitting of certain crucial Bible texts by texts/versions, one of which is the Byz. :Geek
     
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    thanks I already knew that. I am reading Fred Kenyon's great little gem, The Text of the Greek Bible. Do you have this?
     
  17. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    what about Johann Jakob Griesbach?
     
  18. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Six Hour Warning
    This thread will be closed sometime after 10:25 PM Pacific.
     
  19. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    This thread is closed
     
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