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Featured Those who deny the general redemption.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 37818, Sep 25, 2022.

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  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You have to understand they typically are unable to understand the reasons why the general redemption is in fact true because of the necessity of the particular redemption.
     
  2. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes:
     
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  3. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Those who teach a general redemption, that Christ died for everyone, yet knowing everyone isnt saved or going to be saved, that means they deny the saving death of Christ. Christs death/stripes heals, saves, brings about ones salvation !
     
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  4. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    37, you actually believe in a particular atonement. It's just that in your version the human decides whether the atonement is effective, not God.
     
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  5. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Same old song different thread. Were saved by His life not His death. If Christ is not raised you are still in your sins in other words lost. That is a concept you have yet to grasp.
     
  6. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    No Austin I don't think he does. He has said a number of times now it is a general redemption. Christ paid the sin debt for all humanity but only those that trust in the risen Lord will be saved. We will all live again some in glory and some in shame.
     
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  7. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Those He died for are saved by His death, for it is written 1 Pet 2:24

    24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes[death] ye were healed.

    His resurrection testifies to the saving effects of His death, and you deny this !
     
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  8. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, General atonement denies the power of the atonement to those who are perishing, making man the sole arbitrator regarding whether the atonement is effective or not.
     
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  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You know nothing of the sort.

    Without the general redemptton being true.
     
  10. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Your imaginary idea that I couldn't have confidence in my redemption without a general atonement has already been refuted by me in another thread where I showed scripture showing we can have confidence in the Holy Spirit's quickening and gifting to us faith.

    I have shown you that your idea of atonement makes you the arbiter of your own redemption and thus makes you the person who particularly determines how effective Jesus atonement is.

    I have shown you that if general atonement is universal atonement, like you have claimed, then all humans would be universally saved because they would stand before God the Father with zero sins to their deficit, having been made fully holy by the blood of Jesus the Son.
    Yet, you deny the power of Jesus atonement to the perishing. Your very denial tells Jesus that his death failed many for whom He died. You openly declare Jesus as being weak in that man holds the keys to his own salvation and God cannot do anything to prevent them from going to hell.

    But, you won't even think through the massive contradictions of your position. Instead you will keep denying and tell me I don't understand when it is you who won't look at your massive contradictions that stand before you. Actually look at the problems you have in your position.
     
    #10 AustinC, Sep 27, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2022
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  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Where?
     
  12. Piper

    Piper Active Member

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    General Redemption is a logical choice, it is taught in many churches, and it was taught in my seminary.

    Christ died for the world, but not in the same way that he died for the elect.
     
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    What contradiction?
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    How was it different?
     
  15. Piper

    Piper Active Member

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    He died to save the elect. He died to provide common grace to the rest of the world.
     
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That He gave His soul for His, is not at issue. Your second sentence makes no sense. Common grace? You have a Scripture that presents that?
     
  17. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Stop feigning ignorance. Look at the past threads where I pointed this out directly to you.
    Look at this thread where you claim a universal atonement yet you deny it at the same time and declare that only some people will be saved.

    Either the atonement makes people sinless before God or it doesn't.

    You claim it does.

    Yet, you say that a person still can be damned to hell.

    How? Why?

    Please answer the last two questions.

    How is a sinless person damned to hell when Jesus has fully atoned for their sins?

    Why would a judge condemn a pardoned person to hell?

    You need to answer those two questions if you are going to hold to general atonement.
     
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  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The general redemption has no contradictions. Your false views do. Without the general redemption there is no basis for the lost to believe in Christ.
     
  19. Piper

    Piper Active Member

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    Oh, please, you understand the concept of common grace. I don't have 20 pages to lay out the support for the idea.
     
  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The only grace from the general redemption is, ". . . the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." That required no 20 pages. [Romans 6:23] I have never in my 60 years ever heard it called common grace.
     
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