Will God rob a man?!
Tithe - Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me... of Jesus' Righteousness...
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by One Baptism, May 11, 2015.
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Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
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Thou shalt not steal. - Exodus 20:15
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour's. - Exodus 20:17
Why does God say these things? It is because He Himself is no thief, nor covetous after the wicked manner. Rather, what we see instead, is the eternal beauty and awesome magnificence of God's Eternal Unchanging Character, in the self-less sacrifice and giving unto us forever, of His own Son, Jesus Christ.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. - John 3:16
As it is written:
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. - James 1:17
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven. - John 3:13
Further, God is Love:
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. - 1 John 4:8
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. - 1 John 4:16
Charity, envieth not:
Charity suffereth long, [and] is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, - 1 Corinthians 13:4
Since this is so:
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. - Romans 13:9
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law. - Romans 13:10
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. - Galatians 5:14
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: - James 2:8
Of God it is said:
For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them. - Isaiah 61:8
Therefore, those who rob God of righteousness [right-doing], shall not escape:
Those which claim to honour God, and claim to worship Him, and knowingly [light] and willingly refuse Him that which is His own, are a "den of thieves", no matter what else they claim to 'sacrifice' unto Him [for disobedience is sin], and their prayer an "abomination":
And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves. - Matthew 21:13
Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves. - Luke 19:46
The sacrifice of the wicked [is] an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright [is] his delight. - Proverbs 15:8
He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer [shall be] abomination. - Proverbs 28:9 -
Did tithing become part of the new covenant? If so God decided to hide it from Paul and the other New Testament epsitle writer's. No matter how hard you try, you have to use Old Testament covenant to teach it. Some say tithing was before the law, part of the law and in force now also. Where is the New Testament epistles of Paul, Peter, John, Jude, James are the Scripture for this? Circumcision was before the law (Genesis 17:24), part of the law, but is it in effect now? Some of the New Testament apostles tried to maintain it (Acts 15:5-11; Galatians 2:11) but Paul would have none of it. Hebrews talks about Abraham giving a tithe to Melchizedek but the same passage says there was a change in the law Hebrews 7:12. Hebrews 8:13 and 9:1 talks about the "first covenant with regulations (tithing is a regulation of the law) made obsolete (tithing was made obsolete)." Hebrews 10:9 "takes away first (tithing was part of the first) to establish second (tithing is not part of the second)" Hebrews 10:16 "writes law on heart and mind (God never wrote tithing on my heart or mind)"
The principle (law) of giving in the New Testament comes from the heart not from the dictates of the law, 2 Corinthians 8:10 "giving comes by desire", 2 Corinthians 9:7 "purposed in his heart"-"not grudgingly"-"not under compulsion" The church leaders must trust in the people hearing from God themselves 2 Corinthians 8:16 "God puts it in the heart ". Man's way has always been not to trust the people but to lay down the Law. Some can't join a local church without promising to follow the external dictates of the Old Testament law instead of following after the law written in their hearts. This is very close to charging for the word, 2 Corinthians 11:7 "preach without charge".
If I pay my 10 % I have something to boast about, yet in the body of Christ it is "by Grace and faith not by works of the law" "Not of works, lest any man should boast" Ephesians 2:8-9.
God bless,
Brother Joe -
You may only work, because it is God which gives you strength and commandment to do so:
And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. - Genesis 2:15
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life; - Genesis 3:17
Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; - Genesis 3:18
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return. - Genesis 3:19
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. - Exodus 20:8
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: - Exodus 20:9
But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates: - Exodus 20:10
For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. - Exodus 20:11
Wealth [gotten] by vanity shall be diminished: but he that gathereth by labour shall increase. - Proverbs 13:11
For if God did not so give you strength, and is not in the work, you could do nothing, and you could truly accomplish nothing, and all that you thought to have done without Him, will always be nothing, and can only come to nothing, for if it is not built with/by Him, it shall be burned, and vanish away:
I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. - John 15:5
I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all [is] vanity and vexation of spirit. - Ecclesiastes 1:14
Then I looked on all the works that my hands had wrought, and on the labour that I had laboured to do: and, behold, all [was] vanity and vexation of spirit, and [there was] no profit under the sun. - Ecclesiastes 2:11
For he cometh in with vanity, and departeth in darkness, and his name shall be covered with darkness. - Ecclesiastes 6:4
Behold, they [are] all vanity; their works [are] nothing: their molten images [are] wind and confusion. - Isaiah 41:29
They [are] vanity, [and] the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish. - Jeremiah 10:15 [& Jeremiah 51:18]
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3:10
It is God which giveth you all good things, life and breath, wisdom, etc:
Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; - Acts 17:25
For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth [cometh] knowledge and understanding. - Proverbs 2:6
And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding: - Daniel 2:21
Therefore, seeing it is so:
Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise [man] glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty [man] glory in his might, let not the rich [man] glory in his riches: - Jeremiah 9:23
But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I [am] the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these [things] I delight, saith the LORD. - Jeremiah 9:24
God requires, you [and all] to be faithful in the stewardship of all that He has given you, not merely because He created you, but paid such a price to redeem you, and therefore, ye [in all things] are not your own and you have been purchased at the infinite cost of the blood of the Son of God:
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? - 1 Corinthians 6:19
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. - 1 Corinthians 6:20
You, Alcott, were loved so much by God, your Heavenly Father, that He could not in His incalculable love, give you up to die, without attempting to deliver you from so great a death, by such a sacrifice, that all the time in eternity will not be able to explain it:
Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver [us]; - 2 Corinthians 1:10
You, Alcott, are of infinite value to Him:
Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it. - Matthew 13:46
Tithe, is not merely 'nickel', but it is love, born of God in the heart, that is in the returning to Him. It is the outward fruit and demonstration of the faith and love which is created anew internal. Even as God demonstrated love at Calvary, so too, He has given us a way to express love and faithfulness to Him, and one [not the only] of those ways is in the Tithe. It is not that God "needs", but that He wants/desires your own free will love in return:
Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; - Acts 17:25
It is that God desires you to understand His love for you!
We love him, because he first loved us. - 1 John 4:19
The Pastors of the Seventh-day Adventist movement do not receive the Tithe directly, but it is all passed from the body of Christ, to the storehouse where there, God, divides it among all those whom He has called to serve in His service. It is for the work of His Kingdom, that it may go forward conquering and to conquer, and for the bringing out of great darkness and slavery of sin, those bound by the devil:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYPWwRzDZfo&list=PL4PwK7QaFAuheR1AskFVgpsu1rl6XH8AA&index=2
That which does not return love, will die. Look to the things of nature to teach you, for that which hoardes to itself like the deadsea, and gives nothing in return, letting no water of life flow, dies, but yet the sea of Galilee, takes/receives to give, and so is filled with life abundantly.
Scripture is not brainwashing, it is the the very word of God, in almighty power, the same which created the heaven and the earth, and is the same which if you but only listen and believe, can create in you a new heart and mind that is free.
So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. - Romans 10:17
By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. - Psalm 33:6
That same power, that upholds all things:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. - Colossians 1:17
... can indeed, also save you from all your pain, suffering, sorrows, satan, sin and selfishness, it has so done, and continues to do, for all who believe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LETvVezBXio
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me. - John 12:32
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else. - Isaiah 45:22
Those who look, cannot but help see and know, that God is eternal love. He made you, that you may know that love, freely, forever and always.
Will you accept His so great sacrifice for you? Why wait? Who would turn away from such an offer as love?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeFXEIwT7-g -
Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
The biggest dens of thieves are the 'churches' --- 'Christian churches' and their 'leaders'.
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[1] - http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2221345&postcount=8
[2] - http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2221349&postcount=9
[3] - http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2221351&postcount=10
[4] - http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2221354&postcount=11
In further speaking of the New Covenant, and that which is in it, we see, God hath said in Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:25-27; Daniel 9; Hebrews 8:8-13, 10:16-17, etc, that He would write His ["My"] Law upon the heart of man. Not only does Jeremiah define that ["My"] Law within his own book, but it is also so seen in many others.
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them. - Isaiah 8:20
In fact, brother, not you, nor anyone, could cite a single doctrine, not cited from those same sources, ie the Law and the Prophets [so also the Psalms; ie Genesis to Malachi], as they are found in the books from Matthew to Revelation. Even the "offering" brother, is as old as 'tithe', from the beginning.
To Abraham, a mere outward sign, of the inward faith and obedience:
And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. - Genesis 17:11
Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man. - John 7:22
And he gave him the covenant of circumcision: and so [Abraham] begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac [begat] Jacob; and Jacob [begat] the twelve patriarchs. - Acts 7:8
And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which [he had yet] being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: - Romans 4:11
And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which [he had] being [yet] uncircumcised. - Romans 4:12
Spiritual circumcision was always required:
Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. - Deuteronomy 10:16
And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. - Deuteronomy 30:6
Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench [it], because of the evil of your doings. - Jeremiah 4:4
As now, and thus also "much more that which remaineth is glorious" [for both Jews and Greeks/Gentiles [1 Corinthians 7:18], that still exist outside of Christ may come to Christ in their condition]:
For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. - Romans 2:25
Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? - Romans 2:26
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: - Romans 2:28
But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God. - Romans 2:29
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit [is there] of circumcision? - Romans 3:1
Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. - Romans 3:2
Seeing [it is] one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. - Romans 3:30
Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises [made] unto the fathers: - Romans 15:8
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. - 1 Corinthians 7:19
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. - Philippians 3:3
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: - Colossians 2:11
Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek. - Acts 16:3
Even so, Paul is utilizing the 'OT' [Genesis to Malachi; Law and the Prophets] texts to cite support/commandment for the circumcision of the heart, in the 'NT' [Matthew to Revelation] texts, as noted. Will you use the same argument here as you have for the "tithe"? -
And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. - Galatians 3:29
They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. - John 8:39
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? - James 2:20
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? - James 2:21
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? - James 2:22
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. - James 2:23
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. - James 2:24
Why then, will not you as Abraham return tithe unto your Melchizedek, which is Christ Jesus, which hath so delivered you, as Abraham had done for Lot who had been taken captive by the enemy?
If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need [was there] that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? - Hebrews 7:11
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. - Hebrews 7:12
"[Th]e law" spoken of here is the law regarding the "Levitical priesthood", from the Levite Priests to Christ Jesus the Priest after the order of Melchizedek [Melchisedec]. Thus, we, as Christians, kings and priests [1 Peter 2:5,9; Revelation 1:6, 5:10, etc] under Christ's Priesthood, we return not tithe to Levitical persons or to an Levitical High-Priest, but to Christ Jesus, by means of those whom He has now chosen for that service, to bring to the storehouse, for the spread of His Everlasting Gospel, etc.
The change went from one priesthood to another, Tithe remaining, now re-directed, not to Levitical [Aaronic] persons, but to Christ Jesus, in the Melchizedical.
Additionally, and as a sort of P.S., for those which advocate, also here, in this Hebrew text an abolishment of the Ten Commandments, should know that the Ten Commandments, being of Heavenly origin, existed before there ever was a Levitical priesthood. Aaron was not made High-priest until after the Ten Commandments were spoken and written by God, and thus not "under" the Levitical Priesthood, but far above it, from the Throne of Heaven itself.
In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away. - Hebrews 8:13
Then verily the first [covenant] had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. - Hebrews 9:1
Please notice their respective contexts, none of which ever designate/name/identify the "tithe" therein, that already having been permanently revealed to continue in Hebrews 7, and elsewhere, 1 Corinthians 9, etc.
Hebrews 8:13, is in the context of the 'old covenant' [Exodus 19:3-9], which was made 3 days [Exodus 19:15] based upon their [the peoples 'Israel'] promises ["all that the LORD hath said, we will do" [vs 8, see also Exodus 24:3]] before God spoke in awesome majesty before all:
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. - Hebrews 8:6
For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. - Hebrews 8:7
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: - Hebrews 8:8
Hebrews 9:1, in the context of "gifts" [offerings] & "sacrifices":
Which [was] a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; - Hebrews 9:9
[Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation. - Hebrews 9:10
Yet, neither, you nor I, would ever use those texts to remove "offerings" [Luke 21:4, same word], the "gifts".
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, [and] not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. - Hebrews 10:1
For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. - Hebrews 10:2
But in those [sacrifices there is] a remembrance again [made] of sins every year. - Hebrews 10:3
For [it is] not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. - Hebrews 10:4
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: - Hebrews 10:5
In burnt offerings and [sacrifices] for sin thou hast had no pleasure. - Hebrews 10:6
Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. - Hebrews 10:7
Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and [offering] for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure [therein]; which are offered by the law; - Hebrews 10:8
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. - Hebrews 10:9
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all]. - Hebrews 10:10 -
He has so written love upon my heart, and so, obedience to His requirements, and freedom to return to Him that which is His. Tithe is a matter of love and faith.
Also, 2 Corinthians 8, contextually, speaks to the specific matters of helping [by "liberality"] the other churches who were in deep "poverty", through an additional offering - https://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=2Co&c=8&t=KJV#s=1086010
PS, my KJB reads in 2 Corinthians 8:10, as "And herein I give [my] advice: for this is expedient for you, who have begun before, not only to do, but also to be forward a year ago." - 2 Corinthians 8:10
The same non-compulsion, in "offering", is seen in the 'OT' [Genesis to Malachi] texts:
Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring me an offering: of every man that giveth it willingly with his heart ye shall take my offering. - Exodus 25:2
etc.
One does not negate the duty/love of the other.
Those which refuse God's directions, are themselves the greedy ones, refusing Him that which is rightfully His, and truly not understanding what the Holy Tithe and offering really are. It deals with love, understanding of what Christ Jesus, and yea also the Father, has done and is doing yet for us, and also a matter of stewardship of us, His sons who serve, who must give account [Luke 16:2; Matthew 12:36; Romans 14:12; Hebrews 13:17; 1 Peter 4:5, etc] for all the "talents" bestowed.
God's church has order, that He himself established, and gave instruction, as so already seen in the previous posted [see links above], for the maintenance, service and spread of His kingdom.
Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely? - 2 Corinthians 11:7
I robbed other churches, taking wages [of them], to do you service. - 2 Corinthians 11:8
And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man: for that which was lacking to me the brethren which came from Macedonia supplied: and in all [things] I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and [so] will I keep [myself]. - 2 Corinthians 11:9
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. - Ephesians 2:10
Please notice the context of the "covenant" here:
Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. - Malachi 3:1
Now, if you would please, read the rest of the Chapter, etc.
If you would also please re-read my statements here:
And we are his witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. - Acts 5:32
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; - Hebrews 5:9
Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that [there shall] not [be room] enough [to receive it]. - Malachi 3:10
Yet, those who rob God, in that "covenant" [Malachi 3:1] of "tithe" and/or "offering", they are under a terrible "curse":
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. - Malachi 3:8
Ye [are] cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, [even] this whole nation. - Malachi 3:9
Therefore, may God bless you when you repent, and may He grant you that also.
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