1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured To say salvation is by "faith alone" is a false gospel.

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Robert William, Mar 7, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 6 of 7
  1. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    24,988
    Likes Received:
    2,268
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I'm merely pointing out what happened in the Bible! You deny that Jesus said these people had faith and they received forgiveness of sins? You really want to go there?

    Yeah, I saw that the first four times you posted it in this thread.

    Why don't you address the points I'm making instead of retreating into your precious TULIP?
     
    #101 InTheLight, Mar 9, 2015
  2. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,139
    Likes Received:
    86

    God is not willing that any should perish so you limit the any to Believers only?

    I believe you need to re-read it. The Greek "pas" can be used as each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything. It can also be interpreted as collectively and some of ALL types.
    I believe that makes it very clear, God doesn't want any of all types to perish. Very clear it doesn't mean just believers, but all of mankind.

    You also miss 1st John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

    Since Jesus became the propitiation, the payment for the sins of the whole world, then God is not willing that any should perish, John backs up what Peter said. We know that not all will receive Christ and many do perish, why because God gave men Volition. You yourself backed this up with John 3:36 whoever believes hath everlasting life, that is a conscious choice, whoever believes not shall not see life. Nowhere in that verse does it say Those who god chooses to allow to believe will have everlasting life and those he didn't choose shall not see life, it simply doesn;'t say that. Let me repeat that very verse "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

    Please show us in that verse where man is not allowed to believe and God says He made them believe, because what you are saying is that man has no choice to believe or not believe, and yet right there in john 3:36, "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." It states emphatically those who believe, that makes it a conscious choice, will have everlasting life, emphatically it says those who believe not ( make a conscious choice not to believe) w2ill not see life but the wrath of God abideth on him. Those who make a conscious choice not to believe are condemned

    John 3:17 & 18, 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    Again Jesus made it very clear the Father sent Him into the world that He was not sent to condemn the world but to save the world, that is every living person, He that believeth, I don't see in this verse Jesus saying those who the Father chose, He says those who believe, those who make a conscious choice to place their Faith in Christ are not condemned, but those who believe not, not those who God did not choose, but those who chose, who make a conscious choice not to believe are condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of the only begotten son, Those who make a conscious choice not to believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Very clear they have volition to make a choice to receive or not to receive.

    And therefore I restate:
    Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
    30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

    Where Paul makes it very clear, God foreknew who would be saved and who wouldn't. Based on that foreknowledge He knew all who would place their Faith in Christ and those were Predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son. He didn't pick and choose whom He wants to be saved, He chooses those who because of His Omniscience, He already knew what decision they would make out of their Volition. He didn't alter they ability to choose, He just knew the choice they would make. Who would be Faith be regenerated because of His Grace and there was no work involved in doing it. You see those whom He foreknew He Predestinated, called, justified and glorified them, based on what He knew in eternity past.
     
    #102 revmwc, Mar 9, 2015
  3. Robert William

    Robert William Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2015
    Messages:
    555
    Likes Received:
    34
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Such profound ignorance for someone who calls himself a Pastor.:BangHead:
     
    #103 Robert William, Mar 9, 2015
  4. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,139
    Likes Received:
    86
    Really because as Pastor I have seen people fall on their knees and call upon the name of the Lord for Salvation. They believed on Christ, that is how one gets saved according to Jesus Christ. By the way if it is sooooo ignorant why don't you breakdown where it is incorrect instead of just throwing a glaring condemnation out.

    By the way are you saying God's foreknowledge has nothing to do with our being predestinated?

    Or are you saying God is not all knowing enough to have foreknown who would make a positive decision or negative decision for christ and because of that foreknowledge HE did Predestinated those who would make the Right choice by faith.
     
    #104 revmwc, Mar 9, 2015
  5. Robert William

    Robert William Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2015
    Messages:
    555
    Likes Received:
    34
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I already showed told you to look at the start to see who the subject is, God is not willing that any of the beloved perish and is waiting for the last predestined elect before He returns.


    Sorry but scripture does not preach universal salvation, it teaches that the majority of mankind will be in Hell, nobody who's sins have been Atoned for will end up in Hell.

    The natural man serves self and considers the gospel to be foolishness, so why would he receive it??

    The problem is no human is willing or able to receive the gospel.


    Not sure how to do the quote thing, let's see if it works. :)
     
    #105 Robert William, Mar 9, 2015
  6. Robert William

    Robert William Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2015
    Messages:
    555
    Likes Received:
    34
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That's not what scripture teaches.

    Rom 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
    Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
    Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
    Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
    Rom 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
    Rom 3:14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
    Rom 3:15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
    Rom 3:16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
    Rom 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:
    Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

    1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    Mans Depravity= Both REAL Arminians and Calvinists Agree

    It is man who is deceitful (Jer. 17:9), full of evil (Mark 7:21-23)
    loves darkness (John 3:19),
    does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12),
    is ungodly (Rom. 5:6),
    dead in his sins (Eph. 2:1),
    by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3),
    cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14),
    a slave of sin (Rom. 6:16-20)
    Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me (Psalm 51:5)

    13 reasons semi pelagians/pelagians are wrong !

    1)man has a heart that is deceitful (Jer. 17:9)
    2)man is full of evil (Mark 7:21-23)
    3)man loves darkness (John 3:19),
    4)man does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12),
    5)man is ungodly (Rom. 5:6),
    6)man is dead in his sins (Eph. 2:1),
    7)man by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3),
    8)man cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14),
    9)man is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:16-20)
    10)man is sinful in the womb and conceived in sin(Psalm 51:5)
    11)man cannot do good(Romans 3:10)
    12) man hates God (Rom 8:7)
    13)man loves sin (1 John 3:19)
     
    #106 Robert William, Mar 9, 2015
  7. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,139
    Likes Received:
    86
    Also when you break it down be sure and let us know where in the Words of Jesus and Him saying those who believe are not condemned and those who believe not are condemned already. Tell us what He meant by believe and where He says He chose who would be saved and who would not, in that verse because I haven't seen it and John 3:17 & 18 and I am very positive many others here will agree with that interpretation and many others won't, but it doesn't convey that they believe because HE chose them or didn't believe because He chose them not to believe. By the way in your belief how did he decide which person wouldn't believe on Christ and which one would. Because the issue is not a sin issue, Christ paid for all sin according to 1st John 2:2.
     
    #107 revmwc, Mar 9, 2015
  8. Robert William

    Robert William Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2015
    Messages:
    555
    Likes Received:
    34
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It's simple, God is Sovereign and He discriminates. See my signature. :)
     
    #108 Robert William, Mar 9, 2015
  9. Robert William

    Robert William Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2015
    Messages:
    555
    Likes Received:
    34
    Faith:
    Baptist
    ONLY the predestined elect will believe.

    Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
    Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
    Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
    Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
    Eph 1:8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
    Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
    Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
    Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
    Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
    Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
     
    #109 Robert William, Mar 9, 2015
  10. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    1
    You have no business making such comments Robert.
     
    #110 quantumfaith, Mar 9, 2015
  11. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,139
    Likes Received:
    86

    So what you are saying is that satan has a just cause that God is unjust and unfair. Therefore cannot condemn on that basis.
     
    #111 revmwc, Mar 9, 2015
  12. Robert William

    Robert William Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2015
    Messages:
    555
    Likes Received:
    34
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
    Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
    Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
    Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
    Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
    Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
    Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?


    The reason why you are thinking that way is because you are beginning with a false premise thinking that man deserves something from God.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxZKJSNVgqM
     
    #112 Robert William, Mar 9, 2015
  13. robustheologian

    robustheologian Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    167
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If one ignores passages like Phil 1:29, Acts 11:18, and Ephesians 5:22 than I can definitely see where one would say faith is not a gift. But I refuse to ignore any part of God's word.
     
    #113 robustheologian, Mar 9, 2015
  14. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,139
    Likes Received:
    86
    God shows His mercy to all who believe, again What did Jesus say in John 3:17 &18? All who believe and that is Faith, are not condemned, those who believe not that is have no Faith in Christ are condemned already.

    You say "It's simple, God is Sovereign and He discriminates." Discrimination is unjust therefore are you saying God is unjust? That would again contradict the Bible, which says 1st John 1:9 9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

    1st Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

    It says Christ is just and died for the unjust.

    But if as you say God discriminates and therefore that makes God unjust and that is against scripture.

    Zephaniah 3:5 "The just Lord is in the midst thereof; he will not do iniquity: every morning doth he bring his judgment to light, he faileth not; but the unjust knoweth no shame."

    The Lord is just the unjust knoweth no shame and therefore if God discriminates as you say then God knoweth no shame.

    That is not the God I serve and is not the Lord I have Faith in.
     
    #114 revmwc, Mar 9, 2015
  15. Robert William

    Robert William Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2015
    Messages:
    555
    Likes Received:
    34
    Faith:
    Baptist
    1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

    Don't leave this verse out of the love chapter. Too many have A FALSE VIEW OF WHAT LOVE IS, because they put their trust in spinless ignorant preachers instead of the word of God.


    1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
    1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
    1Co 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
    1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
    1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
    1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
    1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
    1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
    1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
    1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
    1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
    1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
    1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
     
    #115 Robert William, Mar 9, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 9, 2015
  16. robustheologian

    robustheologian Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    167
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I'm seeing a common thread of when one is faced with something they don't agree with in one part of scripture, that person then retreats to another part they agree with...instead of coming to grips with that scripture. No one is willing to grapple with what Romans 9 says.
     
    #116 robustheologian, Mar 9, 2015
  17. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,139
    Likes Received:
    86
    Believing is the opposite of doing anything; it is trusting another instead. L.S. Chafere
     
    #117 revmwc, Mar 9, 2015
  18. Robert William

    Robert William Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2015
    Messages:
    555
    Likes Received:
    34
    Faith:
    Baptist
    BOOHOO Aren't you walking in Jesus footsteps! Jesus and His prophets and disciples made people so angry they killed them, that's reality please don't compromise with the way of the world.

    Don't leave this verse out of the love chapter.

    1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
    1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
    1Co 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
    1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
    1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
    1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
    1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
    1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
    1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
    1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
    1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
    1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
    1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
     
    #118 Robert William, Mar 9, 2015
  19. robustheologian

    robustheologian Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    167
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Who is the one DOING the trusting?
     
    #119 robustheologian, Mar 9, 2015
  20. Robert William

    Robert William Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2015
    Messages:
    555
    Likes Received:
    34
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Sounds like a stupid saying I've heard too many times from ignoramus preachers. it goes like this.

    "God loves the sinner but hates the sin"

    So I ask, which one gets thrown into Hell, just the sin or the sinner?? :laugh:
     
    #120 Robert William, Mar 9, 2015
Page 6 of 7
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...