tongue speakers please answer

[Lorelei]

Those who speak in tongues claim that they do so just as the apostles did in Acts 2:4

4All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[1] as the Spirit enabled them.

But the tongues that the apostles were speaking were other earthly languages for those around them heard them speaking in their own language.

Acts 2:5Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. 7Utterly amazed, they asked: "Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? 8Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native language? 9Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11(both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs--we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!"

So I ask again:

When you are speaking in tongues do those around you hear you speaking in thier own language? Do they understand what you are saying?

When the apostles spoke in tongues everyone around them understood them and they all heard "them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues".

Is this how it is with you?

~Lorelei

 

[GrannyGumbo]

I hope you will get an honest & decent reply to this. As I've said before, I've placed the bishop's tapes side by side & all his 'tongues' is the same. One of the charismatics near me told me that her mother-in-law(also charism.)TAUGHT her how to do it! They knelt out by their shed & she kept on rolling her tongue, it kept flipping til out came 'whatever'. She left the Bapt. Church after that. She reminds me of someone who got a taste of the wild life & never wants to go back to the 'dull life'. On those tapes, some sound like bangee's & some sound like Indians. Some sound pretty skeery. "What I am afraid of more than anything is my 4yr.old grandson (whose daddy is the one caught-up in this) is already being "taught" to learn 'tongues'...One day I caught him going de-de-de-de-de-de, etc, & when I asked him what was that, he dropped his head & said "mamaw, I'm going to get the holy ghost".

 

[Norman]

"One of the charismatics near me told me that her mother-in-law(also charism.)TAUGHT her how to do it"

God have mercy. You cannot learn to speak in tongues; if it's not "as the Spirit gives utterance" it's not right.
But to answer the question, it does not say in Acts 2:1-4 that anybody was there besides the 120, but when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together and heard them speaking all the different languages. Then when Peter was explaining this he said (verse 16) "This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel." Then he goes on to tell about the pouring out of the Spirit of God. It is quite plain to me that he connects speaking in tongues with the pouring out of the Spirit of God.
Look in Acts 10 when Cornelius received the Holy Ghost, it plainly shows that Peter knew he had received the Holy Ghost because he heard them speak with tongues. Who else was there to hear him? No foreigners of various languages. Also in Acts 19 when they spoke with tongues there was no crowd of onlookers to hear them. So what's the point of the question?

 

[Lorelei]

Originally posted by Norman:
But to answer the question, it does not say in Acts 2:1-4 that anybody was there besides the 120, but when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together and heard them speaking all the different languages.

You are misinterpreting the word abroad in the 16th century English. It doesn't mean when others abroad heard about it, it meant when others heard it, right then and there.

They spoke in tongues and the next verse says that there were God fearing men there and in verse 6 says "When they heard this sound" they were bewildered. The sound was the sound of the men speaking in tongues.

Going to a KJV interlinear Bible here is the defintion for the word abraod. It has no relevance to travel or distance, only hearing and sound.

From http://bible.crosswalk.com/InterlinearBible/ :
KJV New Testament
Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 5456
Original Word Word Origin
fone probably akin to (5316) through the idea of disclosure
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Phone 9:278,1287
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
fo-nay' Noun Feminine

Definition
a sound, a tone
of inanimate things, as musical instruments
a voice
of the sound of uttered words
speech
of a language, tongue

Verse 6 tells you that there were more then the 120 people there, that is why verse 6 is in the Bible!

Originally posted by Norman:
Then when Peter was explaining this he said (verse 16) "This is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel." Then he goes on to tell about the pouring out of the Spirit of God. It is quite plain to me that he connects speaking in tongues with the pouring out of the Spirit of God.

Joel's prophecy speaks of many signs, tongues are not one of them. He speaks of the outpouring of the Spirit but the significance is just that, the Spirit being outpoured upon mankind! That is what was new and significant, tongues were for a sign for those Jews who did not believe. (1 Corinthians 14:22)

But again, the tongues they spoke of here were languages that were understood.

Now read the end of Acts chapter 2, all who believed were promised the Holy Spirit and how many does it say spoke in tongues? 0
What does it say about signs and miracles?

Acts 2:43Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles.

Originally posted by Norman:

Look in Acts 10 when Cornelius received the Holy Ghost, it plainly shows that Peter knew he had received the Holy Ghost because he heard them speak with tongues. Who else was there to hear him? No foreigners of various languages. Also in Acts 19 when they spoke with tongues there was no crowd of onlookers to hear them. So what's the point of the question?

I see you mentioned all 3 places that tongues were mentioned in the Bible, kind of a small number of times for the evidence of the Holy Spirit baptism when so many more people received the Spirit then that!

The point of my question is that others keep quoting Acts 2:4 as the proof that tongues is the evidence of the Holy Spirit yet thier tongues experience in no way replicate that of the apostles. I see 3 things missing

1. No cloven tongue of fire
2. No sound of a rushing mighty wind
3. No one understands what they are speaking in thier own langue

So I ask again:

Is this the experience you experience? If not, why is it different if this is the way it is supposed to be for this is the evidence of the Holy Spirit for all mankind?

Now that you know the point of my question will you answer it?

~Lorelei

 

[GrannyGumbo]

Norman, so how did your first experience of 'tongues' come about? What do you say about what is happening to my 4yr.old grandson? What about the other small children I hear 'imitating' the grown-ups? How does 'speaking in tongues' help you to know Christ more intimately?

 

[Sularis]

Granny - ifn ya be a Granny - take advantage of it, and use the spare the rod, spoil the child verse, and beat the tongues out of that father!!!

Tongues exists it cannot be learned - My personal experience is how I interpret that tongues must be used

On a missions trip - I had only started studying the langauge a few days before - so while Im supposedly smart; Im not that smart. I attended a Bible study in which the missionary - accidentally spoke false doctrine in the country's language

I responded correcting it, and pointing out an example to back up my correction.

All the time I though this particular exchange was taking place in English. But after I spoke, the students and missionary stared at me, and said how did you understand what we were saying, and When did you learn to speak our language so well.

I was speaking and hearing in English - but they were speaking and hearing in the native language of that country.
Regretfully to beat that church - you will have to pray to God, so that either you or someone else, may enter that church, and ask the Spirit to rebuke them, or give you the words to do so. I wish I had a van - that I could call "the Mystery Machine" and drive around solely correcting doctrine, that is sorely - sorely out of whack with God's truth. But that requires money, and a van. I may even have a calling, but no one seems to care to acknowledge it, so sometimes I doubt.

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by Sularis:

Tongues exists it cannot be learned - My personal experience is how I interpret that tongues must be used

On a missions trip - I had only started studying the langauge a few days before - so while Im supposedly smart; Im not that smart. I attended a Bible study in which the missionary - accidentally spoke false doctrine in the country's language

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sularis, would you mind exposing the "false doctrine" that you heard in this country's language?

MEE

 

[Lorelei]

Mee,

Since you joined the thread would you mind answering the question?

When you speak tongues does everyone hear you in thier own language like they did when the apostles spoke in tongues?

Sularis seems to say that is how thier tongue experience works and at least that would be consistant with Acts 2:4. What about the rest of you?

Sularis,

Is that the only time you spoke or speak in tongues, when witnessing to people that speak other languages?

~Lorelei

 

[Sularis]

Sure Mee no problem - it was actually two fold

He was teaching loss of salvation (I believe in eternal security/once saved always saved no matter what) - and also referring to the Catholic church as well. While I think the Catholic church is messed up in several instances; I honestly believe that tha Catholic church will have a few members up in heaven, perhaps even a pope or two. I will call a Catholic my brother just as much as I will call a charismatic Pentecostal my brother - They just have gone a little nuts. But to refer to what he was stating about the Catholic church - he was stating that it was a false church on the grounds that it told people to go out and sin. I would have accepted encourage but he used the word told. One of the churches I used to attend as a child was in the middle of a Little Italy, and so one gains a passing familiarity with certain (Roman) Catholic dogma. Although if anyone has copies of the Latin rituals in Latin - I am in process of trying to collect them, and updating them in Latin, much as Im doing to the Westminster confession of faith - darn electionist document

and the other documents of faith, so that I can go here - this is what I believe

As I recall part of the ritual phrases it seems to me that after confession (which is something; i believe more mainstream churches should consider) they say go forth and sin no more (my child).

And despite pedophiliac priests - I am still very positive that the Catholic church does not say to its adherents - go forth and sin madly, that way we can extract penance from you

[ May 21, 2002, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: Sularis ]

 

[Lorelei]

Tragic,

Paul said:

12So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church

How are you building up the church by using your gift alone?

How is speaking a foreign language to yourself doing anyone any good?

Do you know what langauge you are speaking?

~Lorelei

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by Sularis:
[QB]Granny - ifn ya be a Granny - take advantage of it, and use the spare the rod, spoil the child verse, and beat the tongues out of that father!!!

Tongues exists it cannot be learned - My personal experience is how I interpret that tongues must be used

On a missions trip - I had only started studying the langauge a few days before - so while Im supposedly smart; Im not that smart. I attended a Bible study in which the missionary - accidentally spoke false doctrine in the country's language

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks for exposing the "false doctrine" that you were referring to, in the above post, according to what you believe.

I'm still not sure what happened. Let me ask you...have you ever spoke in tongues as the Spirit of God gives the utterance?

I'm still trying to put the peices together. Something just doesn't sound right because of what you said to Granny, in the first part of the post above.

If you do have the Holy Ghost and do speak in tongues, why would you say such?

MEE

I

 

[Sularis]

Mee, I thought I just said I did

Unless you are referring to heavenly tongues

In that case I clamp down hard. I refuse to speak in heavenly tongues, and God will have/has had a hard time making me. Yes Im stubborn. And I believe people who profane the Word of God should be punished - and so I made a pun of sorts using a grand-motherly role. Assuming that the father was her child.

Lorelei - That was the only time I spoke in earthly tongues for evanglistic purposes. I do most of my speaking in English, but I do try to learn and not forget other languages.

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by Sularis:
[QB]Mee, I thought I just said I did

Unless you are referring to heavenly tongues

In that case I clamp down hard. I refuse to speak in heavenly tongues, and God will have/has had a hard time making me. Yes Im stubborn. And I believe people who profane the Word of God should be punished - and so I made a pun of sorts using a grand-motherly role. Assuming that the father was her child.

Oh, I see, you don't have the baptism of the Holy Ghost, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues, as the Spirit of God gives the utterance.

That's why I couldn't understand why you would say something against speaking in tongues, with such derogatory remarks.

MEE

 

[Multimom]

Okay, I was raised in the Baptist Church and was an advid Southern Baptist for the first 30 years of my life.

I left the Baptist church nearly 12 years ago. Having personally experienced toungues, I cannot explain it. All I know is that what I have encounterd is a God given experience. And the man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an arguement.

What I have studied about Acts shows that the miracle was on the part of the hearers, not the speakers. The miricle happened that as the utterance was given the hearers heard in their own language.

Being experienced in both relms, Baptist and Charismatic I can easily argue both sides of the "biblical illustrations."

In all reality what it comes down to is can we as the body of Christ love one another and stop seeking for reasons to apply division.

The Bible tells us to know those that cause strife and division among you and have not part with them. For they are false teachers and lead away the weak minded believer.

Tongues is an issue of doctrine and experience, it is not a determining factor for entering heaven.

The truth is that "for by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves, it is the free gift of God, lest any man should boast."

While I have experienced the "baptism of the Holy Spirit", I still love the brethren and I know that my precious God fearing Baptist Preaching Daddy will enter heaven just as I will when that day comes.

I feel that these discussions fall under the "all things are acceptable, but not all things are profitable."

I won't go into my personal experience unless asked to, but the message of Christ is to Love one another and "so fullfill the law of Christ".

 

[Sularis]

MEee

First of all you arent paying very much attention, second of all you remind me of the Pentecostal girl my brother dated, who spoke in tongues, lifted her hands in praise and worship, committed sexual acts with him, but when he wouldnt put all the way out. She went off to Bible college and got herself pregnant. I most remember her for punching me in the testicular region; just because I offered to help her. But oh she's a special person because she had the extra filling of Satan.

Mee, I have prophesied, recieved knowledge concerning people, spoke in that earthly tongue, and healed - which is all good, which would suggest to me I have as much of the Spirit as anyone with the "lesser" gift of tongues.

ALSO Mee you foolish child (I care not if you are an old man/woman) You have not grown and sought after greater gifts, but rather focus on the lesser of the gifts - I spoke not against tongues, but rather the father and church who "taught" tongues. The gifts of the Spirit are not taught by earthly man or things - BUT ARE COMING DIRECTLY FROM THE SPIRIT AND OF HEAVEN!

I have no need for an extra filling of the Spirit

Once I was saved, I got all the Spirit, grace that I will ever need.

Let me give you an illustration:

Once I was saved, my pipes were hooked up to heaven's waterworks utility, heaven is pushing water(Spirit) through my pipes, but my sin, and concious choice at times hinders the Spirit. However the Spirit has the ability to break the tap and gush out, to push aside all the grunge and hairballs of sin. When we are in tune with God - the Spirit is the strongest.

 

[Naomi]

Originally posted by Sularis:


When we are in tune with God - the Spirit is the strongest.

Sularis,
I agree with your last statement. When we are in tune with God-The Holy Spirit within us is the strongest.

May we all remember that when we are in tune with God, the fruit of the Spirit will become evident within our lives. We will learn to love people and bear one another's burdens. We will be peaceful and patient. We all have gifts. God has given all of us gifts, they are irrevocable. The Fruit of the Spirit, however, is grown. It is something we develope as we are growing in truth.
As we are in tune with God, we will grow in grace. The more we grow, the more we can show grace and mercy to other's. Praise God for His abundant Grace and Mercies!!
Naomi

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by Sularis:
[QB]MEee

First of all you arent paying very much attention, second of all you remind me of the Pentecostal girl my brother dated, who spoke in tongues, lifted her hands in praise and worship, committed sexual acts with him, but when he wouldnt put all the way out. She went off to Bible college and got herself pregnant. I most remember her for punching me in the testicular region; just because I offered to help her. But oh she's a special person because she had the extra filling of Satan.

Mee, I have prophesied, recieved knowledge concerning people, spoke in that earthly tongue, and healed - which is all good, which would suggest to me I have as much of the Spirit as anyone with the "lesser" gift of tongues.

ALSO Mee you foolish child (I care not if you are an old man/woman) You have not grown and sought
after greater gifts, but rather focus on the lesser of the gifts - I spoke not against tongues, but rather the father and church who "taught" tongues. The gifts of the Spirit are not taught by earthly man or things - BUT ARE COMING DIRECTLY FROM THE SPIRIT AND OF HEAVEN!

I have no need for an extra filling of the Spirit

Once I was saved, I got all the Spirit, grace that I will ever need.

Have you lost your mind?

 

[Lorelei]

Originally posted by Multimom:
What I have studied about Acts shows that the miracle was on the part of the hearers, not the speakers. The miricle happened that as the utterance was given the hearers heard in their own language.

You think it is more of a miracle for people to see others indwelled by the Spirit then to receive that indwelling themselves?

The miracle was this:

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved

The miracle was that now for the first time God was indwelling His believers with His Spirit! It wasn't the tongue or hearing the tongues, it was the outpouring of the Spirit as prophesied by Joel!

What it comes down to is this: Is what you are experiencing Biblical or not? Your lack of explanation may not bother you, but I believe the Word of God to be true and if your experience violates it in anyway, then what you experience is not from God.

You are obviously a woman, do you speak in tongues in church or are you silent as the Word commands?

No one has answered my original question which is when you speak in tongues, can everyone understand you in thier own language? Is it a specific language as it was with the apostles? If it isn't what the apostles experienced in Acts 2:4 then what is the basis for your belief that your experience is indeed Biblical?

~Lorelei

[ May 24, 2002, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: Lorelei ]

 

[Sularis]

Yes Mee, I am

For in Christ all things are new
even my mind, and I lost the old
one many years ago.

No one leaks the Holy Spirit, or else that
could mean, at certain times, we have no
Spirit, with us; which violates the
oromises of God

We dont leak, we sin, we dont lose, we clog

 

[Naomi]

Sularis,
Are being real here? Or are you just trying to be funny?
Naomi