The foreknowledge of God as it concerns His own elect is not though just that Gid knows who will be getting saved by accepting jesus, he actually is the One that will cause them to receive Jesus thru faith!
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Total Depravity vs Free Will
- Thread starter tyndale1946
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Certain elements of your salvation remain incomplete.
In this sense - after they are accomplished your salvation will be complete.
HankD
His salvation, or his theology regarding it?
I am not sure what you mean but I will give the answer to what I think you mean.
our salvation will be in the technical and theological meaning complete when we are in the eternal state in our resurrected glorified bodies.
HankD
Yes, as at THAT time, we will finally received the fullness of our inheritance in Christ!
Ok, if this be the case, and I were to die before this all takes place, can a person who is not "fully saved" enter heaven? If salvation is a process, and no one is saved when the believe in Jesus fully and have their sins forgiven, then there are many who have died without becoming full Christians? I don't see this anywhere in the Bible.
We will not experience the fullness of what God promised to us when saved until the Second Coming event!
Everybody who enters heaven will do so "not fully saved" because our salvation will only be completed in heaven. That is what "permanent salvation" means - our final deliverance from the presence of sin, our glorification.
This is 4th grade Sunday school stuff. Please, tell me you do really understand this basic bible teaching and are just trying to be funny. Please.
When we believe we are delivered from the penalty of sin and are guaranteed a place in heaven. But we are not yet perfect. We grow in grace all through our lives, and will be perfect only when we are promoted to Glory.
As for your claim you don't see this anywhere in the bible, in post #98 I gave you 51 verses from scripture that prove it. If you can't see (or won't see) what the bible clearly says then there is not much more I can do.
Problem with Calvinism is it inadvertently makes Evil holy attributing way to much divine power to Evil to the point of even calling GOOD things EVIL or having love that is not love at all, or accepting Evil as natural creator 2ndary God.
Things created by God are natural, hence they are in nature. Things created by God are Good, ACTUAL GOOD.
There is no "EVIL NATURE" no "SIN NATURE" there can only be a corruption and abomination of TRUE NATURE as God set forth.
To say there is a SIN NATURE or EVIL NATURE is to wave the Devil's flag in victory its the eternal "I told you so" or "Takes one to know one", on GOD.
Its the idea that Evil is not defective which is wrong. All evil is defective, it sins, misses the mark, it is corrupt, it is unnatural, UNnatural.
Suppose YOU are Totally Depraved, We'll say well It doesn't mean he is as evil as he can be, like runs around murdering and raping like a lunatic. It means you have a lack of "SPIRITUAL" Good a complete INABILITY to do anything Good before God.
We begin to see the SPINNING calling Good Evil and Evil GOOD. Buddy let me tell you, If you have no spiritual GOOD and are completely unable of to do anything Good before God you are absolutely indeed AS EVIL AS YOU CAN BE.
There is no such thing as 2nd class Good. When Adam ate the fruit was that murder and evil as he can be? Every sin is like attempted murder on God.
There is other "Good" News to being totally depraved.......you can't get corrupted worst. You can't fall when your laying down on the ground you actually have to be somewhere up the ladder to fall.
Everyone on default is a Devil Worshipper.
I could say hey everyone is "SPIRITUALLY" Dead. An Evil person's heaven is he can sit hear the terror and suffering of millions of souls, like music to his ears. If that sounds a lot like hell that's a good thing. Evil is out to destroy kindness, love and compassion. Its the same hell even if you think heaven is some kind of sex cafeteria have what you want.
Any "Good" that doesn't glorify God is EVIL and should be called evil rather then good.
" But for good to be diminished is an evil, although, however much it may be diminished, it is necessary, if the being is to continue, that some good should remain to constitute the being. For however small or of whatever kind the being may be, the good which makes it a being cannot be destroyed without destroying the being itself." ST. Augustine
Mankind was wounded at the fall with Adam and Eve. But if you say all capacity of Good (true good, spiritual good for God, not "FAKE" GOOD) has been destroyed then the being itself is destroyed.
At moment of your soul's creation, never mind your conception, Total Depravity says you come DEAD. You can't fall, you start way down there, You don't start born, you start dead.
This is why BORN AGAIN and RE GENERATE don't fit here. Because it implies Life prior and prior generation.
If it was the first time scripture would act like it.
Things created by God are natural, hence they are in nature. Things created by God are Good, ACTUAL GOOD.
There is no "EVIL NATURE" no "SIN NATURE" there can only be a corruption and abomination of TRUE NATURE as God set forth.
To say there is a SIN NATURE or EVIL NATURE is to wave the Devil's flag in victory its the eternal "I told you so" or "Takes one to know one", on GOD.
Its the idea that Evil is not defective which is wrong. All evil is defective, it sins, misses the mark, it is corrupt, it is unnatural, UNnatural.
Suppose YOU are Totally Depraved, We'll say well It doesn't mean he is as evil as he can be, like runs around murdering and raping like a lunatic. It means you have a lack of "SPIRITUAL" Good a complete INABILITY to do anything Good before God.
We begin to see the SPINNING calling Good Evil and Evil GOOD. Buddy let me tell you, If you have no spiritual GOOD and are completely unable of to do anything Good before God you are absolutely indeed AS EVIL AS YOU CAN BE.
There is no such thing as 2nd class Good. When Adam ate the fruit was that murder and evil as he can be? Every sin is like attempted murder on God.
There is other "Good" News to being totally depraved.......you can't get corrupted worst. You can't fall when your laying down on the ground you actually have to be somewhere up the ladder to fall.
Everyone on default is a Devil Worshipper.
I could say hey everyone is "SPIRITUALLY" Dead. An Evil person's heaven is he can sit hear the terror and suffering of millions of souls, like music to his ears. If that sounds a lot like hell that's a good thing. Evil is out to destroy kindness, love and compassion. Its the same hell even if you think heaven is some kind of sex cafeteria have what you want.
Any "Good" that doesn't glorify God is EVIL and should be called evil rather then good.
" But for good to be diminished is an evil, although, however much it may be diminished, it is necessary, if the being is to continue, that some good should remain to constitute the being. For however small or of whatever kind the being may be, the good which makes it a being cannot be destroyed without destroying the being itself." ST. Augustine
Mankind was wounded at the fall with Adam and Eve. But if you say all capacity of Good (true good, spiritual good for God, not "FAKE" GOOD) has been destroyed then the being itself is destroyed.
At moment of your soul's creation, never mind your conception, Total Depravity says you come DEAD. You can't fall, you start way down there, You don't start born, you start dead.
This is why BORN AGAIN and RE GENERATE don't fit here. Because it implies Life prior and prior generation.
If it was the first time scripture would act like it.
I'm pretty sure the mole on your right cheek will remain. [emoji56]I can't wait, I need my new body now
HankD
That is not the point in question. When a person confesses their sins and repents they are sealed by the Holy Spirit and we have a new "owner", God. The sealing of the Holy Spirit is a guarantee that when we die in Jesus, we are going to heaven to be with Him, whether or not we are "fully sanctified" as it is on the basis of Christ's Righteousness that we are saved and salvation is a FINISHED act for every true believer. As I have said, Calvinism makes the simple Gospel confusing with its additions and unbiblical teachings.
My last on this issue
The three steps are:
Justification: We are justified by Christ meaning the penalty of sin has been removed. We are saved from Hell.
Sanctification We are growing in Christ, becoming more like him. We are being saved from the power of sin.
Glorification: We are fully in Christ. We are saved from the presence of sin.
There are no specific "proof verses", but there are many that point to these truths.
I can't wait, I need my new body nowHankD
Hank be more demanding... I NEED MY NEW BODY NOW!... Then I can FINALLY get rid of that RAGING LION that keeps following me around... Brother Glen
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I agree, but a believer can go to heaven on the first one, Justification
Yes if you are born again you will enter heaven when you die because as far as the Triune God is concerned our resurrection and glorification is a done deal because it depends upon the finished work of Jesus Christ.
HankD
Of course. For a long time I thought of salvation only as being saved from Hell, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." But it's more than that.
Don't worry, Glen. God only made a few perfect heads. The rest he hid under a lot of hair.Does this mean I get my HAIR back?... PRAISE THE LORD!...Brother Glen
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