Featured True Saving Faith = Believe, Repent, Obey

When evening came I was ready for Church service and was glad to go. It required no urging. Another large crowd was present and the preacher was as earnest as ever. I did not give much heed to the sermon. In fact, I do not recall a word of it. I was anxious for him to conclude and give me a chance to go to the altar. I had gotten it into my head that there was some real virtue in the mourner's bench; and when the time came I was one of the first to prostrate myself before the altar in prayer. Many others did likewise. Two or three good people at intervals knelt by me and spoke encouragingly to me, but they did not help me. Their talks were mere exhortations to earnestness and faith, but there was no explanation of faith, neither was there any light thrown upon my mind and heart. I wrought myself up into tears and cries for help, but the whole situation was dark and I hardly knew why I cried, or what was the trouble with me. Now and then others would arise from the altar in an ecstasy of joy, but there was no joy for me. When the service closed I was discouraged and felt that maybe I was too hardhearted and the good Spirit could do nothing for me.

After we went home I tossed on the bed before going to sleep and wondered why God did not do for me what he had done for mother and what he was doing in that meeting for those young people at the altar. I could not understand it. But I resolved to keep on trying, and so dropped off to sleep. The next day I had about the same experience and at night saw no change in my condition. And so for several nights I repeated the same distressing experience. The meeting took on such interest that a day service was adopted along with the night exercises, and we attended that also. And one morning while I bowed at the altar in a very disturbed state of mind Brother Tyson, a good local preacher and the father of Rev. J. F. Tyson, now of the Central Conference, sat down by me and, putting his hand on my shoulder, said to me: "Now I want you to sit up awhile and let's talk this matter over quietly. I am sure that you are in earnest, for you have been coming to this altar night after night for several days. I want to ask you a few simple questions." And the following questions were asked and answered:

"My son, do you not love God?"

"I cannot remember when I did not love him."

"Do you believe on his Son, Jesus Christ?"

"I have always believed on Christ. My mother taught me that from my earliest recollection."

"Do you accept him as your Savior?"

"I certainly do, and have always done so."

"Can you think of any sin that is between you and the Savior?"

"No, sir; for I have never committed any bad sins."

"Do you love everybody?"

"Well, I love nearly everybody, but I have no ill-will toward any one. An old man did me a wrong not long ago and I acted ugly toward him, but I do not care to injure him."

"Can you forgive him?"

"Yes, if he wanted me to."

"But, down in your heart, can you wish him well?"

"Yes, sir; I can do that."

"Well, now let me say to you that if you love God, if you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior from sin and if you love your fellowmen and intend by God's help to lead a religious life, that's all there is to religion. In fact, that is all I know about it."

Then he repeated several passages of Scriptures to me proving his assertions. I thought a moment and said to him: "But I do not feel like these young people who have been getting religion night after night. I cannot get happy like them. I do not feel like shouting."

The good man looked at me and smiled and said: "Ah, that's your trouble. You have been trying to feel like them. Now you are not them; you are yourself. You have your own quiet disposition and you are not turned like them. They are excitable and blustery like they are. They give way to their feelings. That's all right, but feeling is not religion. Religion is faith and life. If you have violent feeling with it, all good and well, but if you have faith and not much feeling, why the feeling will take care of itself. To love God and accept Jesus Christ as your Savior, turning away from all sin, and living a godly life, is the substance of true religion."

That was new to me, yet it had been my state of mind from childhood. For I remembered that away back in my early life, when the old preacher held services in my grandmother's house one day and opened the door of the Church, I went forward and gave him my hand. He was to receive me into full membership at the end of six months' probation, but he let it pass out of his mind and failed to attend to it.

As I sat there that morning listening to the earnest exhortation of the good man my tears ceased, my distress left me, light broke in upon my mind, my heart grew joyous, and before I knew just what I was doing I was going all around shaking hands with everybody, and my confusion and darkness disappeared and a great burden rolled off my spirit. I felt exactly like I did when I was a little boy around my mother's knee when she told of Jesus and God and Heaven. It made my heart thrill then, and the same old experience returned to me in that old country Church that beautiful September morning down in old North Georgia.

I at once gave my name to the preacher for membership in the Church, and the following Sunday morning, along with many others, he received me into full membership in the Methodist Episcopal Church, South. It was one of the most delightful days in my recollection. It was the third Sunday in September, 1866, and those Church vows became a living principle in my heart and life. During these forty-five long years, with their alternations of sunshine and shadow, daylight and darkness, success and failure, rejoicing and weeping, fears within and fightings without, I have never ceased to thank God for that autumnal day in the long ago when my name was registered in the Lamb's Book of Life.

 

As far as I am concerned the Christian education has made people too much like the old Dr Minnis.... Dry and interminable!

 

It was "determined" by who?

Changing words in the Bible is not wise, Samuels....God does not tolerate men who mess with His words.
Here is the passage again from the AV:

" knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. " ( Galatians 2:16 )

The first occurrence of "of Jesus Christ " is transliterated from the Greek word " Ἰησοῦς" ( Strong's G2424 ) as, "Iēsoûs", which means, "of Jesus".
The occurrence, mid-verse, of "in Jesus Christ" comes from the transliterated phrase, " eis christon iEsoun", which means, "in Jesus Christ".
The second occurrence of "of Christ" in this passage is transliterated from the Greek word, " christou", ( Strong's G5547 ) which means, "of-anointed".

The main difference between the first "of Jesus" and the second "in Jesus", is the word, " iEsous" ( "of Jesus" ) and "iEsoun" ( "in Jesus" )...which is lent even stronger support by the words, "eis" ( "in") "christon" ( "Christ" ).
The translators of the "KJV" have rendered it correctly from the Greek.

Whatever translation you're using isn't 100% faithful to the Greek, at least to me.
From my perspective, it's as if someone slipped up and simply went with what they thought it should read.

In addition, I see something else:

Bringing the translation over into the English, I see it agreeing perfectly with these points:
It is the faith "of" ( originating from, authored and finished by, see Hebrews 12:2 ) Jesus Christ, given as a gift ( Ephesians 2:8 ) to God's children ( Jude 1:3 ).

So, to render "iEsous" as "in Jesus" is rendering it incorrectly.

There is no such thing as "saving faith"...i.e, the kind of faith that is required to save someone.
But there is such a thing as evidential faith...the kind of faith hat accompanies God's gift of eternal life.

We don't hold the key to faith...
God does.

It's the same with the miraculous act of being made born again.
It's by His will ( John 1:13, James 1:18 ), not our will.

 

I cannot speak for Glen, but I know that the doctrine I've come to over the years wasn't arrived at lightly.

So throwing it away would be like tossing an entire skyscraper into the bay.

Doctrines are built on precept upon precept.
The foundation is Christ...
Each doctrinal "block" must be carefully placed in the life of a believer.

But if the blocks are bad ( put there by false teachers ), then the building must be torn down all the way to the lowest sound "block" and rebuilt again...stone by stone, with Christ remaining as the chief corner... always.


Unfortunately, what you're describing "architecturally speaking", would be similar, in artistic terms, to tossing away a beautiful Monet and replacing it with a Picasso.

To me, works salvation is not beautiful.
Particularly because it does not give God all the glory and credit for saving a sinner from His wrath.

It also does not promise forgiveness from all trespasses.

 

That's not grace, sir.

That's "Me and Jesus get me saved"...not "Jesus saves".

You may see that, I do not.

If salvation is cooperative, mankind can take credit for performing what God "requires".
Again, that is not grace, and violates several key points of His word:

Psalms 3:8
Psalms 62:1
Romans 11:5-6
Ephesians 2:9

and completely contradicts Psalms 65:4, John 14:6, John 6:39, John 6:64-65, John 17:2, John 10:26, Romans 8:28-30, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 and several others that come to mind.

Christ is "the way"...not "Christ plus me".

 

He'd be waiting a long time.

Unless He chooses a person and causes them to come to Him ( Psalms 65:4 ), they will always remain at enmity with Him.

He's already said that there is none that seek Him ( Romans 3:10-18 ).

No one chooses to love Him, apart from Christ's sheep.
They love Him, because He first loved them ( 1 John 4:19 ).

Sure they do.

Man's free will is biased one way before He starts His work, and it's biased the other after He is done.

Because he's already used his free will...to hate Him.
Our free will choice is already made, and continues to be made every day, apart from being born again.

Mankind starts out life hating God ( Psalms 58:3, Romans 1:18-32 ), and unless He changes that, He will cast them into Hell for the sins they willfully commit in their willful ignorance.
That is what the new birth is...a stony heart replaced with a soft heart ( Ezekiel 11:19, Ezekiel 36:26 ).

Mankind is in defiant rebellion...so, our free will is already biased against Him.
Sinners are not free moral agents...

We are God-hating, unrepentant and sin-loving rebels that reject Him and His ways out of habit.

That's why we need a Saviour.

 

Samuels,

You're preaching works salvation.
That is not what the Bible teaches.

No BAC will ever try to take credit for their gift of eternal life.
They know better than that.

But there are many who believe themselves to be BAC's, and are not.
False believers who think that the Bible is a "set of requirements to be met", who are trying to work their way to Heaven and who truly do not believe on Jesus Christ from the heart, will try their very best to convince the Lord not to cast them into Hell ( Matthew 7:21-23 ).

It will not be a pretty sight.

 

I agree.

Everything we've been talking about regards Born-Again Christians.

I understand what you are teaching very well, sir.

Apparently, you say God's children have to work for their salvation.
I say that they do not.
To me, you teach salvation by works, making the grace of God null and void ( Romans 11:5-6 ) and polluting His holy work of saving someone with man's filthy rags.

I say it's a gift, given to those who weren't even expecting it ( Romans 10:20 ), and they are given everything they need to pass all their tests and shine forth as the righteous sons and daughters of the living God that He made them to be ( Romans 9:23 ).

God's children do their work by the power of the indwelling Spirit, who never fails and there is never any possibility that His people will perish.
The devil's children, try as they might ( and similar to the Pharisees ), work their tails off thinking all along that they are doing what He wants... only to be cast into the Lake of Fire ( Matthew 7:21-23 ).

The Lord God Almighty capitalizes on what's not "fair"...He completely nullifies the efforts of men and the wisdom of men ( 1 Corinthians 1:18-31 ), by choosing and causing His elect to come to Him ( Psalms 65:4 ).
By man's standards, it's not "fair", that God would rip the rug out from under man's every effort to escape Hell, and to bestow it to people of His choosing.


But He does not operate by our standards...
He does as He will in the armies of Heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth ( Daniel 4:35 ).

This is my final reply to you in this thread.


Samuels,
It looks to me as if you will have to discover all of this the hard way.

 

My 1st post here and i'm not sure I am following this right but my understanding is we are saved purely by grace (reward that is undeserved) via faith and repentance which if genuine will result in good works which are not a condition of but a result of salvation.

 

Thanks for the reply @Samuels I think I see where it get complicated. For example recently someone told me how after his best friend died his children rejected Christianity and chose to fall away, so the question is was there faith in the true Jesus and his gospel that they later rejected or did they only believe in a false gospel that told them these bad things don't happen to Christians or did they never have true faith at all? I don't know and don't think anyone except them and God could know.
Another issue is can we loose salvation through sin.
Example 1. Someone repents of there sins and has faith in Christ and that he died for there sins but it never makes much difference to there lives but they remain aware they are sinners and repent but it never produces works. So was there faith really true if it produces no works and where they really ever truly saved and if they were does there salvation drift away or do they keep about the minimum to enter heaven?
Again I don't know
Example 2. Someone becomes a BAC but is trapped in perpetual continuous sin that they struggle against and repent of but never get out of it as the temptation is too strong.
I think this person would always still be saved.
Example 3. Someone becomes a BAC but is later deceived by the prosperity gospel and is a lover and hoarder of money which is uses some of to help others and this makes them feel like there a good Christian. They continue to have faith and repent of there general sins but do not see there love of money as a sin. So do they have the wrong faith? Do they have the minimum faith to enter heaven?
I don't know
Example 4. As example 3 but they only ever heard the prosperity gospel. Does this make a difference & does faith in this meet the minimum requirements of salvation? If not how much incorrect theology would stop you being saved.
Example 5. Someone is saved in a church that tells them a sin they live in is not a sin so they never repent of that sin and live in it as they do not think it is a sin. Are they then saved at all?
I don't know
I could likely add a load more but thats what I have got for now.