Trying to find a church home

So, provide the data about those "informed" people and where they get their information.
Please don't be offended when I ask for you to back up your claims with tangible facts. It is not an unreasonable request. In, fact, you could have done so 5 posts earlier if you had tangible information. But, instead you have balked at the request and sought to shame me as not being aware or doing my own research. That is bizarre. Why don't you just provide the tangible evidence? Is it because you have none?

 

Salty, you have become prideful and belligerent. Fitting with your profile name.
I have nothing more to say to you on this matter.

 

I think you should join the worst church you can find around. Then you'll be left with absolutely relying on God Alone and learn what REAL FAITH is.

 

Uhh... okay

 

Best answer you could give to that post. Bravo.

 

Thanks for the useful insight.

When I worked on (reviewed and suggested edits) my goal was to make our views clear. But when reading "statements of faith" on line, I see omissions that nurture ambiguity, and downplay whether the church is Calvinist.

 

When Christians ask me to recommend a good United Methodist church in another city where they are relocating, I advise them not to attend a church by denominational label, but rather to attend a variety of churches and sense where they are best fed and where they feel they can make the greatest contribution. I woiuld avoid any church that seems to stress doctrine at the expense of the power and gifts of the Holy Spirit. In my experience Vineyard churches can be very good or too fanatical. So visit them with discernment to see how good the fit is.

 

Asking someone to visit Vineyard churches with discernment is like asking them to visit prostitutes with discernment.

 

Hmmm...and I would avoid any church that emphasizes feelings over doctrine.
Indeed the balance is found in rightly dividing the Word of God.
Is the cessationist view that the compelation of the Canon marks the end of sign gifts correct or is the view that the return of Christ marks the end of sign gifts correct? Scripture will inform us.
Of most importance is the recognition that all gifts from God are to His glory and not to our self-indulgence and pride.

 

The leadership of the Vineyard churches claim to be Apostles and prophets. And, I'm going to agree with you "before" the foundation of the world is a twisted translation.

 

Particular: "Hmmm...and I would avoid any church that emphasizes feelings over doctrine. Indeed the balance is found in rightly dividing the Word of God."

On the contrary, it is much easier to feel your way to God than to think your way to God. That fact is what Billy Graham had in mind when he famously declared, "Many Christians have just enough spirituality to inoculate them against the real thing." True, feelings can be deceptive, but a true church stresses the need to walk in the Spirit and be led by the Spirit (Galatians 5:22) and this obligation is an affective (feelings!) rather than a cognitive principle. Agape love cannot be reduced to feelings, but it certainly includes feelings. U say this as a former theology professor who specializes in fine points of doctrine. Particular seems to champion churches that are described in 2 Timothy 3:5 as "having a form of godliness but denying it's power. Avoid them!"

Particular: "Is the Cessationist view that the compelation of the Canon marks the end of sign gifts correct or is the view that the return of Christ marks the end of sign gifts correct? Scripture will inform us."

A Cessationist church is a DEA--UUUD church! The search for the right church should heed Paul's most neglected principle:

"But I will come to you soon, if the Lord wills, and find out not the [God] talk of these arrogant people, but their power. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of [God] talk but of power. (1 Corinthians 4:19-20)."

Let me illustrate just how dramatic an upgrade a Vineyard church might be for you. Dave and Patty are members of our weekly prayer group. Dave had a very painful blood clot that extended from his ankle to his groin area. His doctor told him not to go out because the clot might break up and piece might go to his heart or brain and kill him! Dave opted to ignore this advice and dine at Maverick's, a restaurant I can see from my residence windows. Mark, a Vineyard leader, walked into Mavericks and, through a word of knowledge knew that Dave had a serious physical problem, though the 2 men had never met. Mark walked up to Dave's table and asked, "Do you have a physical problem that is in urgent need of prayer?" A startled Dave replied "Yes" and confirmed Mark's discernment. Then Mark asked if Dave wanted prayer for his problem. Dave felt embarrassed because customers nearby were viewing this spectacle, but reluctantly said "Yes," hoping Mark would pray quietly. But Mark prayed loudly and, praise God, Dave was instantly healed! Follow-up tests confirmed the miracle, a healing that set Dave's heart on fire for the Lord. I later sought Mark out and had lunch with him and his wife. I learned that James, the owner of Maverick's, also had a blood clot and that Mark's prayers had instantly healed him as well! That's the kind of power a good Vineyard ministry can bring into your life!

 

One day you can be ready for it.

Sometimes you can be left humbled by the "wrong" way to worship God. Sometimes you are given the opportunity to speak up when you know their doctrines to be wrong. Sometimes its on you to pray for a church in shambles. Sometimes you pray for a strong church to do the right thing.

Have you ever met a Jehovah Witness who is shunned by their congregation or divorced baptist ridiculed by their own family? Or a sad Catholic in a bar? (atheist have their churches too)

Its real easy to go to a church that is going to tell you everything you want to hear. Doesn't take much faith to go back at all.

 

Feel all you want. All you'll feel is an empty soul because you works will never save you.
Find a church where salvation by grace, through faith is taught and you will be in a Kingdom based church. Find a church where human feelings are emphasized and you will be in an entertainment center that feeds your flesh, your pride and your ego.

 

On the contrary, Paul repeatedly teaches that one's initial reception of the Holy Spirit is an experience of divine power and such an experience includes feelings that make them discernible. Do you need instruction in the Word to demonstrate this for you>

 

Paul says that God must make a person alive with Christ. Whether you feel it or not, when God chooses to adopt, you are adopted.
Feelings are fickle and easily mimicked by demons. Paul prays this prayer for saints:

Philippians 1:9-11 And it is my prayer that your love may abound more and more, with knowledge and all discernment, so that you may approve what is excellent, and so be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.

Notice, no prayer for feelings, but yes for knowledge and discerment.

 

But abounding love involves enriching feelings. To see just how crucial spiritual "feelings" have been in my life, read my evolving personal testimony under the Prayer and Praise section of this site. I have much more to share in that thread, which I will eventually add, but tomorrow night I will deliver my full testimony to an interdenominational meeting. Still, no one has warned of the dangers of feelings sabotaging charismatic manifestations more than me. Being skeptical by nature, I wouldn't even be a Christian today, were it not for those highly emotional experiences in my youth. You have given me an idea for a new thread on Faith and Feelings. So stay tuned for that and we can continue our discussion of this important question.

 

Powerful testimony!

 

Yes it was and I could tell a few of my own, but don't go to a church because of the healing, go to a church because of the healer... Brother Glen:)