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Unbelief vs Belief ?
- Thread starter percho
- Start date
What you wrote was:
That is what I was objecting to. Man has free will to refuse the Gospel (e.g. John 3:19). But he will not believe the Gospel until He is born anew (or 'born from above'). The relevant texts are John 3:3-7; 1 Cor. 2:14. Why do men freely reject Christ? Because they have wicked unbelieving hearts. But once he is born anew, he freely repents and trusts in the Lord Jesus. The idea that Man does not have free will is a myth. No one comes to Christ kicking and screaming "Give me my freedom back!" No, no! They come willingly. 'Your people shall be willing in the day of your power.'Anthony Pritchard said:
God did not drag Lydia into the kingdom against her will. Instead He 'opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul.' Christ laid down His life for His sheep (John 10:11). Who are these sheep? Well, there are many breeds of sheep; the Lord's sheep are distinguished by their ears and their feet. They hear the Shepherd's voice and they follow HIm (John 10:27). They are not forced into the kingdom; they freely hear and they freely follow.
All this is in line with the great Calvinistic confessions. Please do not confuse Calvinism with Hyper-Calvinism.
Oh, those awful hypers... hyper-Calminians, hyper-evangelicals, hyper-Dispensationalists, hyper-Calvinists, hyper -Arminians, THEY'RE EVERYWHERE!... hyper hyper hyper, hyper on the brain...
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Ben1445
Well-Known Member
If you are born again but can reject the gospel, that is the end of perseverance of the saints.
Ascetic X
Well-Known Member
There is not a single verse in the Bible that says “Get born again, then repent and be saved”.
This backwards gospel is the nonsensical doctrine of Calvinism.
Anthony Pritchard
Active Member
Hebrews 11:1 defines faith as substance and evidence. Conviction is the result of believing, not the definition of believing. Saul’s conversion was a unique apostolic encounter with the risen Christ; it is not the pattern Scripture gives for ordinary belief. The gospel calls men to believe, repent, and come, and those commands presuppose genuine human agency.
Anthony Pritchard
Active Member
The inspired nouns in Hebrews 11:1 are hypostasis (substance) and elegchos (evidence). “Conviction” is an interpretive gloss, a paraphrase of one Greek word, in some English translations, not the lexical meaning of either word. The text defines faith as substance and evidence, not conviction.
Anthony Pritchard
Active Member
Brother, Lydia actually illustrates the very point I’m making. Acts 16:14 is describing what enabled her belief, not what caused it. The Lord “opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul.” That opening was an act of divine enablement, giving her the capacity to respond, not an act of determinism that guaranteed her response.
If a person cannot believe until God opens the heart, and if the opening of the heart is what produces willingness, then belief is caused by God’s action. That is the standard Calvinist order of salvation.
My concern is simply the order Scripture presents: God moves upon the heart, He convicts, enlightens, and draws, and man then responds either by receiving or rejecting the free gift. That is genuine human agency.
In the Calvinist structure you described, regeneration must occur first, and regeneration itself changes the will so that belief will follow. That is why I said that, in Calvinism, belief is caused by God. I am not confusing Calvinism with Hyper‑Calvinism; I am simply following the logic of the order you laid out.
Ascetic X
Well-Known Member
People repent when God brings a preacher to them, they hear the gospel, and decide to obey the scriptures.
Otherwise, you have irresponsible robots that God controls, violating their free will, and forcing them to obey Him.
Being forced like a puppet to serve God does not bring any glory to God at all.
Jesus did not preach “hope that God will give you repentance, so you will believe the gospel.”
Since Jesus preached “repent and believe”, repenting and believing cannot be a work of man to earn salvation.
Mark 1:14, 15
Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
God’s goodness leads us to repentance, it does not put repentance into us.
[Rom 2:4 KJV] Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Otherwise, you have irresponsible robots that God controls, violating their free will, and forcing them to obey Him.
Being forced like a puppet to serve God does not bring any glory to God at all.
Jesus did not preach “hope that God will give you repentance, so you will believe the gospel.”
Since Jesus preached “repent and believe”, repenting and believing cannot be a work of man to earn salvation.
Mark 1:14, 15
Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
God’s goodness leads us to repentance, it does not put repentance into us.
[Rom 2:4 KJV] Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
To be convinced of something you have to believe that the information is true.
KY they may be able to convince you that leprechauns are real as you have already shown that you can be convinced that what is not true is true.
Paul already knew the information regarding Christ having risen from the grave and His being divine but he did not believe it. When he encountered Jesus on the road to Damascus he acquired addition information which caused him to then reevaluate his position and believe in Christ as Lord. So Paul meeting Christ was the final piece of information that Paul needed before he trusted in Christ.