Pastor Larry,
One would have hoped that a Christian pastor would have read the book in question before claiming what Mr. Hunt writes about as being in error. Not very objective . . . There is no question that reviews and friends reviews of the text come for the most part from bias people who favor Reformation theology. 'Hearsay evidence' is neither scholarly or objective.
Unconditional Election And the Invincible Purpose of God
Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Monergist, Dec 29, 2002.
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Pastor Larry,
What does John 1:9 mean to you as a Calvinist. My guess is that many of like mind never have preached on this particular text. -
tnelson,
You made a statement that Mr. Hunt made about being 'conformed to the image of the Son. What book and page does this statement come from; in other words, document your point. Otherwise, we might think that this is 'hearsay evidence.
If you believe in eternal security how then can a backslider be saved who is out of fellowship with the Lord? I believe in eternal security but don't think that a saved, backslider is in perfect conformity with the holiness of our Savior. This is a sincere question, my brother. -
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[ January 06, 2003, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ] -
I've read the book, and although I didn't agree with everything found in it, there is much to be appreciated. I would encourage you to at least try to read it for yourself - then you could speak from having at least experienced it instead of reciting what others say about it. -
It is a very wise and common practice not to read everything available. There is not that much time and there too much available. Many have recommended this approach and all would be wise to take it. If Hunt's book was recommended by reputable sources, I would read it. There has not been one reputable source that recommends it. The reviews and rebuttals have been shown the facts about the book.
Do you think that my reading the book would change the nature of it? Will my reading correct the misstatements and misrepresentations? I don't think so. I don't have that much power. -
I can relate to Scott's post. I heard all the negative's about Hunt's book but decided to buy and read it myself. Although I was a little disapointed at the depth of his attempts to refute the Calvinist proof texts I did benefit from the book. It was very good at detailing the history, philosophical arguments against, and natural implications of Calvinism.
I think one of the main reasons this book has upset Calvinists so much is that it presents Calvinism in a very raw fashion while genuinely trying to represent their view accurately.
I've read Chosen but Free, What Love is This and have just started Potter's Freedom.
Jacob.
[ January 06, 2003, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: Jacob ] -
No offense Pastor Larry but slamming a book without reading it is a big No No.
Jacob. -
Learn this in life. You do not have read every piece of junk that someone publishes. You don't even have to read all the goos stuff. Find some reputable readers and read their critiques. If you are going to quote a work, make sure you read enough to know that you are quoting it accurately and in context. Do not waste your time reading everything. Having said that, if someone wants to send me a copy fo the book, I will be glad to read it :D . I simply will not waste my own money on it.
The truth about Hunt is that he wrote a book he was not qualified to write, rejected the kind advice of others not to write it, miserably failed, and now is reaping just criticism that comes from those who know what Hunt is talking about and have recognized that Hunt does not know what he is talking about. Hunt has written some helpful things. This is not one of them and the quicker that people realize this, the better off they will be.
Read the title article at this link for additional evidence. The Great Calvinistic Conspiracy
[ January 06, 2003, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ] -
Having an open mind is a sign that a person doesn't think he knows it all. It is what you don't know that can hurt you and keep you in spiritual myopia.
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Pastor Larry,
Your biggest mistake is your presupposition that ALL reputable scholars and pastors come out of the Calvinistic persuasion of theology. While there is much correct in their views one has to be careful with some of their interpretations.
Dr. Merrill C. Tenney and Harry Bollback, Co-founder with evangelist Jack Wyrtzen of Word of Life International have done more for the Lord and have a better understanding of the Word, in my opinion, than some of the error coming out of books written by Dr. R.C. Sproul, Mr. Harold Camping, Dr. Van Til, J.I. Packer and other quasi-theologians.
Respectfully,
Ray -
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Prior to reading the book I read all the reviews too. But I really felt I needed to read the complete work for myself to get the complete tone of it. I also noticed that pretty much all the reviews were written by strict Calvinists who love to "eat arminians for breakfast". In reading the book I got a completely different tone about Hunt than I got from just reading the reviews. He really cares about presenting Calvinism fairly and respects the person even though he disagrees with their theology. He also raised some important points which either don't come up in the reviews or are not fully presented.
Larry, I suggest you read it. As for not wanting to pay for the book that's sad. You're not supporting Islam or some cult. Dave Hunt/Berean Call is a brother in the Lord. I often find that Calvinists CANNOT treat this issue as secondary. Elevating secondary issues to the level of primary issues is dangerous - don't treat him as a cult.
Jacob. -
As for secondary, I am not sure that it is secondary. We are talking about some very basic matters of soteriology and Ray and some others have come very close to denying the biblical teaching on it. They work their way around by finely nuancing their words but I scarcely think it is sufficient. I am not running them out of Christianity. But I think a great deal more care needs to be exercised in reckoning with the text of Scripture. Forget about Calvin; talk about Scripture. That is what we need. -
Jacob. -
These comments have been made by a number of people other than James White. In fact, I don't think I knew that White said that until today. Perhaps I had missed it somewhere. I actually heard that from a number of other sources. But as I say, my reading the book will not change the nature of the writing.
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Ok, i'm not going to waste my time to read a book on "why homosexuality is a normal lifestyle" why? because I know it's garbage and I don't need to waste the time God has given me to be a steward of on reading a junky book.
If he hears from scholars that he trusts and agrees with and saying that he's totally off base and why, then why would he go spending his valuable time to read it.
Personally, i'm not going to waste my time to read a long arminist book preaching about man's right to choose.
WHO ARE YOU, OH MAN, TO ANSWER BACK TO GOD. -
Ray Berrian
I did not read it from a book I heard it with my ears and you can to at htt://www.straitgate.com/jw121402.ram
Also Ray, I have read Dave's book "What Love is This" and he does not have a clue about reformed doctrine. Also I read his new letter. Also God used Dave to bring me to an understanding of Gods Sovereign Grace. This may sound strange to some but nothing is impossible with God.
by His Grace i see
mike
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