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Featured Understanding Acts 13:48

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jan 11, 2023.

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  1. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Your words are empty, JD. It's disappointing that you find God's Supremacy to be sad to you.
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    More fiction, many translations go with tasso being middle voice, not just one. I mentioned by name the Alfred Marshall translation.
    Next the fiction that his corrupt view lifts up God is again proclaimed. Utter nonsense.
    Next his cult like view is exposed by his charge my view is cult like. Projection.
    Finally, his bogus view he calls legitimate, but it remains an obvious agenda driven mistranslation.
     
  3. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    I quoted another translation by the Jehovah's Witnesses that you'd like...
     
  4. Tsalagi

    Tsalagi Member

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    In your view, is God sovereign enough to ordain a creature with independent free will?
     
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    LOL, the old guilt by association fallacy. These guys have no shame.
     
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Adam Clarke,
    "
    Acts 13:48
    Verse 48. As many as were ordained to eternal life believed.] This text has been most pitifully misunderstood. Many suppose that it simply means that those in that assembly who were fore-ordained; or predestinated by God's decree, to eternal life, believed under the influence of that decree. Now, we should be careful to examine what a word means, before we attempt to fix its meaning. Whatever τεταγμενοι may mean, which is the word we translate ordained, it is neither προτεταγμενοι nor προορισμενοι which the apostle uses, but simply τεταγμενοι, which includes no idea of pre-ordination or pre-destination of any kind. And if it even did, it would be rather hazardous to say that all those who believed at this time were such as actually persevered unto the end, and were saved unto eternal life. But, leaving all these precarious matters, what does the word τεταγμενος mean? The verb ταττω or τασσω signifies to place, set, order, appoint, dispose; hence it has been considered here as implying the disposition or readiness of mind of several persons in the congregation, such as the religious proselytes mentioned Ac 13:43, who possessed the reverse of the disposition of those Jews who spake against those things, contradicting and blaspheming, Ac 13:45. Though the word in this place has been variously translated, yet, of all the meanings ever put on it, none agrees worse with its nature and known signification than that which represents it as intending those who were predestinated to eternal life: this is no meaning of the term, and should never be applied to it. Let us, without prejudice, consider the scope of the place: the Jews contradicted and blasphemed; the religious proselytes heard attentively, and received the word of life: the one party were utterly indisposed, through their own stubbornness, to receive the Gospel; the others, destitute of prejudice and prepossession, were glad to hear that, in the order of God, the Gentiles were included in the covenant of salvation through Christ Jesus; they, therefore, in this good state and order of mind, believed. Those who seek for the plain meaning of the word will find it here: those who wish to make out a sense, not from the Greek word, its use among the best Greek writers, and the obvious sense of the evangelist, but from their own creed, may continue to puzzle themselves and others; kindle their own fire, compass themselves with sparks, and walk in the light of their own fire, and of the sparks which they have kindled; and, in consequence, lie down in sorrow, having bidden adieu to the true meaning of a passage so very simple, taken in its connection, that one must wonder how it ever came to be misunderstood and misapplied. Those who wish to see more on this verse may consult Hammond, Whitby, Schoettgen, Rosenmuller, Pearce, Sir Norton Knatchbull, and Dodd."
     
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    In Acts 13:48 τεταγμενοι is in the middle voice.

    In Romans 13:1 τεταγμεναι is also in the middle voice. But the genitive case of "by God" causes τεταγμεναι to be in the passive voice.

    Please point out what in Acts 13:48 causes τεταγμενοι in it's middle voice to need to be understood in the passive voice. Thank you.
     
  8. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Proverbs 21:1. 'The king's heart is in the hands of the LORD, like the rivers of water; He turns it wherever He wishes.'
     
  9. Tsalagi

    Tsalagi Member

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    This appears to be gnawing on an old bone - Greek "Middle Voice"
     
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  10. Tsalagi

    Tsalagi Member

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    Proverbs 21:4 - "An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin."
     
  11. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    In Acts 13:48 τεταγμενοι is in the Passive Voice.
    This sentence makes no sense. In Romans 13:1, τεταγμενοι is proven to be in the Passive Voice because it is the only way that the verse makes sense. The same applies to Acts 13:48, as I shall show.
    It is not in the Middle Voice but in the Passive. The reason is that it makes no sense to say, 'As many as had appointed themselves to eternal life believed' because it puts the cart before the horse. First they appointed themselves to eternal life, and then they believed???? Crackers! The context demands that τεταγμενοι is understood as Passive. And as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.'
    'The violent attempts which have been made to eliminate the doctrine of election or predestination from this verse, by rendering the last verb 'disposed' etc., or by violent constructions, such as that adopted by Socinius ('as many as believed were ordained to everlasting life!') can never change the simple fact that wherever this verb occurs elsewhere, it invariably expresses the exertion of power and authority, divine or human, and being in the Passive Voice, cannot denote mere disposition, much less self-determination, any more than the form in 2:40, which some have cited as a parallel example.' [J.A. Alexander, 'The Acts of the Apostles.' Banner of Truth Reprint]
     
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  12. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    God works out his will under the principle of his providence, not his absolute sovereignty. In this way his majesty and wisdom are displayed. For instance, those gentiles in Acts 13 glorify God more because they may come for his free and gracious salvation through Jesus Christ than they would if they must come for it.

    The church of Jesus Christ that he is forming, first by receiving repentant Jews, and then by receiving repentant gentiles and putting them together into his body as one in standing as sons of God causes even the angels and heavenly principalities to have open mouthed wonder as this wisdom of God is revealed.

    The mystery of the church of Jesus Christ:
    Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise (which is the Holy Spirit to indwell us) in Christ by the gospel: 7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: 12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

    I am not sure why we who are recipients of this grace cannot be a little overwhelmed by this marvelous grace and why it seems to be hidden yet from some who never sees past their own so called special sovereign election.
     
    #112 JD731, Jan 17, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2023
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  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That is not true.
    Evidence:. ". . . And while the Gentiles are hearing this, they were rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and they believed as many as were appointing themselves toward everlasting life. . . ." MLV.
     
    #113 37818, Jan 17, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2023
  14. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    That would be what Dr Alexander referred to as a 'violent construction.' τεταγμενοι is in the Perfect Tense; 'were appointing themselves' is Imperfect.
    May I refer you to the old thread linked by @Tsalagi - here it is again: Greek "Middle Voice" Have a read of the posts by the late Tom Cassidy. I could cut and paste them, but I haven't the energy..
     
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  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The MLV transation exists. So does Adam Clarke's commentary. And the TLB paraphrase, "wanted."
    And Romans 13:1 is not in dispute.

    The more I have looked at this, I see the distinction between Acts 13:48 usage and Romans 13:1.
     
  16. Tsalagi

    Tsalagi Member

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    This mistranslates the participle as present when it is in fact perfect. Basic Greek facts: a perfect participle is a verbal adjective indicating completed action in antecedent time relative to the main verb. The perfect participle tetagmenoi with the subject hosoi and imperfect indicative active form of the verb eimi yields a literal description of that group of Gentiles who believed: "as many as were [those] having been appointed [beforehand] with a view toward eternal life." Straining to make this a middle voice yields the literal translation, "as many as were [those] having appointed themselves [beforehand] with a view toward eternal life believed."

    I do not believe the Bible supports the Reformed view of how salvation occurs, but grammatically the middle voice simply will not work in this context; thus the understanding expressed in my first post above. FWIW.
     
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Acts 13:48, ". . . And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were | willing for | eternal life believed. . . ."

    Synonyms for ". . . disposed to . . . ."
     
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  18. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    37, even a non-greek scholar (who isn't a Calvinist) is showing you how awful it is to translate Acts 13:48 in the middle voice.
    At this point, with the overwhelming group of scholars showing you, Van and Sliverhair being wrong, it would be best for you all to tap out and admit you have no legitimate argument.
     
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  19. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    It is not surprising, then, that the distinguished biblical scholar Henry Alford argued for the rendering, “as many as were disposed,” in his well respected 4 volume work, The Greek Testament. (John Piper of all people sings Alford’s praises thus: “When I’m stumped with a . . . grammatical or syntactical or logical flow in Paul, I go to Henry Alford. Henry Alford mostly answers-he . . . comes closer more consistently than any other human commentator to asking my kinds of questions.”) Alford’s treatment of Act_13:48 can be found in this volume available online.

    This verse is important because it shows that the exclusion of the Jews from the ranks of the saved was their own choice, not the result of some predestining activity of God. The Jews specifically judged themselves unworthy of eternal life. This is exactly the opposite of the Gentiles’ reaction, especially when Paul and Barnabas applied Isa_49:6 to themselves: “I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth” (Act_13:47). Act_13:48 then describes the reaction of the Gentiles to this preaching. It was in fact just the opposite of the Jews’ reaction: “And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord.” Then follow the crucial words: and as many as set themselves toward eternal life believed. How did they set themselves toward eternal life? By hearing and heeding the word of God (cf Rom_10:17; Eph_1:13).
    We cannot ignore the symmetrical contrast between the reaction of the Jews in Act_13:46 and the reaction of the Gentiles in Act_13:48. Whereas the Jews rejected the gospel and judged themselves to be unworthy of eternal life (Act_13:46), the Gentiles received it gladly and embraced the message of eternal life (Act_13:48). In both cases the decision was a matter of free choice. There is no support for Calvinism in Act_13:48 Dr. Cottrell

    It would be best for you, Austin, to tap out and admit you have no legitimate argument.
     
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  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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