1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Understanding John 1:14

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jun 20, 2022.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 7 of 7
  1. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    233
    Faith:
    Baptist
    First off, the grammar and word usage of John 7:29 does not directly inform the grammar and word usage of John 1:14.

    Here's John 7:29 in Greek: ἐγὼ οἶδα αὐτόν, ὅτι παρʼ αὐτοῦ εἰμι κἀκεῖνός με ἀπέστειλεν (emphasis mine)

    The παρα is in bold, and it is παρα + genitive. Here it means "from." There is no "sent" here. "Sent" does appear, however, using a separate word: ἀπέστειλεν. Jesus is saying He comes "from Him (God)" and "He (God) sent Him." But, He is saying both things separately.

    I have no problem that Christ came from God and was sent from God. The problem I have is that παρα doesn't mean "sent from," especially in John 1:14. In fact, John 7:29 argues against your point in John 1:14. If παρα meant "sent from," certainly John would have used only παρα to convey the idea that Jesus was sent from God in John 7:29. But, of course, he doesn't. He includes the verb "sent."

    The Archangel
     
    #121 The Archangel, Jun 28, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2022
  2. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    233
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Seriously? Where have you been for this entire past thread?

    The Archangel
     
    #122 The Archangel, Jun 28, 2022
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,029
    Likes Received:
    1,027
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This poster is still shoveling sand against the tide of truth!
    Now he says Jesus being from and sent by the Father does not inform our understanding of the intended meaning of para in John 1:14! Ludicrous.

    And again this poster falsely claims para does not mean sent from, but more than a dozen published translations render para as sent from or sent by, so he is falsely claiming all these experts are wrong. Go figure.

    Further, did I say or imply para should always be rendered "sent from?" Nope.
     
    #123 Van, Jun 28, 2022
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,029
    Likes Received:
    1,027
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In what manner was Christ "from" (para) the Father? If we let scripture explain scripture, then John 7:29 is on point:
    “I do know Him, because I am from Him, and He sent Me.”​

    So the idea of para in the John 1:14 usage is to be provided by the Father for His purpose.

    Why is "sent from" to be the preferred choice in understanding than just "from?" Because "from" might refer to being fathered in a created sense, rather than the actual meaning of sending the existing Logos for the Father's purpose.
     
    #124 Van, Jun 28, 2022
  5. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    233
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Did you even read the post? Did you see that in John 7:29 both words "sent" and "from" are present, but from different words???

    So, you call me a liar? (What else does "Shoveling sand against the tide of truth" mean?)

    The Archangel
     
    #125 The Archangel, Jun 28, 2022
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,029
    Likes Received:
    1,027
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Why is this poster addressing my behavior allowed to post off topic posts? Go figure.
    In what manner was Christ "from" (para) the Father? If we let scripture explain scripture, then John 7:29 is on point:
    “I do know Him, because I am from Him, and He sent Me.”​

    So the idea of para in the John 1:14 usage is to be provided by the Father for His purpose.

    Why is "sent from" to be the preferred choice in understanding than just "from?" Because "from" might refer to being fathered in a created sense, rather than the actual meaning of sending the existing Logos for the Father's purpose.

    Now he says Jesus being from and sent by the Father does not inform our understanding of the intended meaning of para in John 1:14! Ludicrous.

    And again this poster falsely claims para does not mean sent from, but more than a dozen published translations render para as sent from or sent by, so he is falsely claiming all these experts are wrong. Go figure.

    Further, did I say or imply para should always be rendered "sent from?" Nope.
     
    #126 Van, Jun 28, 2022
  7. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    233
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You’re talking two different things here: translation and meaning. As I’ve stated, I have no problem with Jesus being “sent from” God in general (that’s what John 7:29 says). I do, however, have a problem with your claim that para can be translated as “sent from” in John 1:14.

    For reasons I’ve already given, para does not mean “sent from” in John 1:14.

    The Archangel


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    #127 The Archangel, Jun 28, 2022
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,029
    Likes Received:
    1,027
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You just figuring out there is a difference! I have addressed both numerous times.

    Your false claim para cannot be translated as sent from in John 1:14 has no basis in reality. The choice is contextual and within the range of historical meanings. Nothing in the grammar precludes the choice.

    Why is "sent from" to be the preferred choice in understanding than just "from?" Because "from" might refer to being fathered in a created sense, rather than the actual meaning of sending the existing Logos for the Father's purpose.
     
    #128 Van, Jun 28, 2022
  9. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    233
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Nope. You’re not going to be right about this translation issue in John 1:14 no matter how many times you post your errant thoughts.

    The Archangel


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    #129 The Archangel, Jun 28, 2022
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,029
    Likes Received:
    1,027
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yet another taint so post of errant thoughts.
     
    #130 Van, Jun 28, 2022
  11. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    38,982
    Likes Received:
    2,615
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This will be closed no sooner than 630 pm (EDT) / 330 pm PST
     
    #131 Salty, Jun 29, 2022
  12. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    38,982
    Likes Received:
    2,615
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This thread is closed
     
    #132 Salty, Jun 29, 2022
Page 7 of 7
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...