I am surprised that you continue to argue like a Gnostic. There is no evidence that spirit existence is somehow better than physical. Angels are those who minister to (ie. serve) Christians (Hebrews 1:14).
In the 'days of His flesh,' by which the writer means His time upon earth, our Lord suffered from bodily weaknesses; He was tired and needed to sleep, He was 'in every way made like His brethren' (Hebrews2:17) so I suppose He suffered from headaches and other ailments. When He rose from the dead, He had a different kind of body, but it was still a physical one. In that body He rose into heaven, and in that body He will return. You may imagine that He has parked it somewhere in heaven at the present time, but Philippians 3:21 certainly seems to contradict that.
Understanding Preterism
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by evangelist6589, Dec 27, 2015.
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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tyndale1946 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
I have heard this argument also what about those bodies that have been cremated, decomposed in the ocean, had all sorts of atrocities committed against it, explosions, torn to shreds by wild animals, blown up in wars, accidents, diseases and anything you can think of... I think that is the belief that divides the camp and in doing so does not that limit God?... What about Job who said I will see God with my own eyes?... I agree with Brother Martin that a physical bodily resurrection is the bedrock of our faith and just because I don't understand it does not make it so... Brethren who believe otherwise should take a trip to Ezekiel 37 to the valley of dry bones!... Our God and Savior Jesus Christ is not limited... He speaks and it is, commands and stands fast!... This is the same God that created the world and everything in it out of nothing will bring all of it together at the last trump... The same body that went in is same one coming out changed immortalized and glorified to never die again... The Bible is plain and God is not the author of confusion!... Brother Glen -
tyndale1946 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
We could appeal to any number of New Testament passages that affirm the specific character of Jesus’ resurrection, but they all speak to the same truth. His resurrection was literal and physical. It involved His physical body, that same body that was born of a virgin, lived as a man for around thirty-three years, suffered at the hands of the Romans and the religious leaders in Jerusalem, was crucified by the Romans, buried, and—yes indeed—arose three days later. Our study passage goes to great length to affirm the literal reality of Jesus’ resurrection. No gnostic or mystical explanation of a “Spirit body” can withstand the vivid witness of Jesus’ literal body that stood before the disciples. Based on John’s writings, especially First John, one of the earliest heresies to invade first century Christianity was a gnostic fantasy that denied that Jesus had a human body at all or that, if He had a human body, that it arose from the dead, much less entered heaven at the ascension. According to John, this belief assaults one of the most fundamental and essential truths of Biblical truth. How strongly does John reject the gnostic heresy?
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. (1 John 4:3; emphasis added) -
This is not only a teaching of some preterists but some "protestants" (not that that makes it right).
More evidence - There will be "eating and drinking" in the Kingdom of God (requires a physical body).
Luke 22
28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
HankD -
asterisktom Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Today has been a busy day for me here so I am only able to get this one response off. Hopefully I will be able to answer more tomorrow.
“35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, 36 for they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.”
Notice the chain of cause and effect. The not marrying and giving in marriage – the latter phrase is an important detail, BTW, but that is for another thread – stems (notice the “for”) from them not dying anymore. And, in turn, the not dying anymore stems from the dual stated reasons (“because”):
1. “they are equal to angels”, and
2. they “are sons of God”.
And underlying this is their “being sons of the resurrection”.
In short, not marrying and giving in marriage, and not dying anymore are results of – not reasons for – being like the angels.
This once again leaves the question unanswered: How are we like the angels?
Which brings me to the second point here. I see you quoted the NIV's unfortunate rendering here. I believe the passage I quoted (ESV) is better. The word, I think - I don't have my Greek handy and the Internet right now in China is quite contrary - , is “body” (singular), not “bodies”. That makes a difference, opening the way for interpretation that Paul is speaking of the corporate body, as he does in Ephesian 4:4:
“4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, “
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asterisktom Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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This is why rapture theology is so popular. It is neo-platonic gnosticism veiled in terms of eschatology. -
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Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Genesis 3
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Later the corruption due to sin escalated and caused God to say:
Genesis 6
6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Hmm, things don't seem to be "very good" anymore.
The total effect is indicated in the following:
NKJV Romans 8
20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope;
21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.
23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.
It appears from this passage that "death" was/is systemic throughout the entire universe.
I don't believe it was that way from the beginning but is due to the adamic fall.
Even the scientific community calls the slow death of the universe "entropy" or "The heat death of the universe".
Google result "entropy".
The universe is predicted to die in 5 billion years...
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...ce-universe-end-of-time-multiverse-inflation/
Coincidentally the Andromeda Galaxy is on a collision course with our own Galaxy, The Milky Way and will collide with us in 5 billion years
However its not so bad - our sun is predicted to Nova (Burn out - so to speak) before Andromeda arrives.
OK - these are scientific "facts" but I included them to bring a little bit of light humor into the boxing match and show that even the world is aware that death reigns in this universe.
The good news of Romans 8 is that the sons of God appear to have been appointed to remedy this situation.
21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
HankD -
Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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HankD -
Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Phil. 3:20-21, ESV. “20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself. "
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asterisktom Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
But notice that this Scripture - always our rule of faith, not creeds - does not say anything about Christ coming back in the flesh. I have had several opponents to my view that try to help the inspired Apostle out and add that phrase.
Nowhere does the Bible state that Christ will come back in the flesh. -
asterisktom Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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asterisktom Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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But rather than beat this to death I plan to just start a new thread.
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Doesn't "in like manner" imply a bodily return?
Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
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