I do not berate those that give 10% of their paychecks. It is a good thing, it is generous, and I encourage them to keep on doing it.
I do however berate those that say there is a requirement to do such. The idea of that there is a requirement to give such a mathematical amount is not Scriptural. And no one should be made to feel guilty or disobedient if they are not following such a tradition that is not Scriptural. That is all that I am trying to say.
Understanding the "tithe"
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by AresMan, Oct 4, 2005.
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You don't but many do.
I think you have a point. But likewise, it should be recognized that those who object to the edict to tithe (which I agree with you that it is not a law) typically are looking for an excuse not to give. That is by no means all, or even the majority, but it is more than a few. -
You don't but many do.</font>[/QUOTE]I have never met someone who does. Most of the people that I have met think "tithing" is an obligation. Maybe the berated ones that are "tithing" try to get the idea across that they are obeying a command. I don't know, but I would be shocked to meet someone that actually sees something wrong with the act of giving 10% of one's paycheck if that person was not trying to foist it on others.
I think you have a point. But likewise, it should be recognized that those who object to the edict to tithe (which I agree with you that it is not a law) typically are looking for an excuse not to give. That is by no means all, or even the majority, but it is more than a few. </font>[/QUOTE]Sometimes I see "tithers" hold out on God. They put their check in the plate every month, and after that they don't put any more in. I think that may be grounds for Phariseeism. -
Consider thyself fortunate.
I think it's an obligation, at lest in the same manner that good manners are an obligation. I don't think it's a law, however.
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Earlier there was a mention of the magical 30% requirement.
Does anyone know of the scripture reference that is claimed to support this? -
The 30% may or may not be a misinterpretation of verse 28 in the OP. At the end of every three years, does this tithe represent the accumulative tithe of the three years combined (10% x 3 = 30%) or is it only the tithe of the third year?
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That would mean going to the temple once every three years ... that is still 10% per year ... or that is a misrepresentation of MATHEMATICS ... ;)
But, I think that a misunderstanding of math is what happens in most people's theology.
The reading should indicate one of the two following:
If the 3d year is an additional tithe that year - then it is an effective 10.333%/year ... else, it is still 10%/year.
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I think the first two years are local neighbourhood tithe celebrations. The third year is an outreaching conglomerate tithe celebration. I think it is still the same amount each year, just what you do with it.
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Quoted by JohnV: It seems that there's a movement in teh church that berates those who tithe. You'd think it was some sort of "giver's lib" movement. They'll be burning their offering envelopes next.
I never have berated anyone that wants to give the equivilent of a 10% tithe. It is however usually the churches teaching this false doctrine that berates the ones that don't.
It is amazing to see this board comming to the conclusion that the tithe is not N.T. There has been much study from many people. This is a good thing.
I am against calling giving a tithe because of how the word empowers people teaching it wrongly to excercise legalisim over others.
Quoted by JohnV: I think you have a point. But likewise, it should be recognized that those who object to the edict to tithe (which I agree with you that it is not a law) typically are looking for an excuse not to give. That is by no means all, or even the majority, but it is more than a few.
Why is it that when people study the bible and recognize the truth that N.T. giving is the way to go, people like you accuse them of looking for excuses not to give?
Look John, I have been in churches where tithing was practised and enforced. It was a sickening experience to watch how people are picked to serve based on their giving.(not biblical). How they were told they were robbing God if they missed a week, or they were told to tithe even if the rent isn't paid. Tithe no matter what. Can't out give God.
None of that is or ever has been biblical! The bottom line is that the N.T. church is set up to GIVE, not TITHE.
When you say that those that have found the truth of the matter are looking for ways not to give, you are kicking God in the teeth. If giving isn't a better way it makes God a liar and you right!. I don't think so. If giving wasn't better we would still be tithing O.T. style. Which is NOT the way tithing is being practised in the church.
I don't berate anyone. But I do berate the practise because it makes you stubborn Christians act like you know better than God. Once you get it in your mind that you are right you start(not you personally)imposing this pharasitacal behavior on others.
God knew what He was doing. There are many christians that give with a cheerful heart because they have been liberated from this false teaching. -
Don't look at tithing as us giving God 10%, look at it as God giving us 90%. I'll be thrilled to give a $1 for every $10 you give me. :D -
That we should imitate him?
He also sacrificed burnt offerings.
He was also a polygamist.
HankD -
Regular tithing is an attitude. It's an attitude that you owe God, not that He owes you. It's my unscientific observation that those who don't tithe have unhealthy attitudes about money in general. Tithing starts the journey of putting your heart and mind in the right frame. Heck, even Suze Orman instructs those who are financially strapped to begin budgeting a part of their income (and she even says that 10% is a good round figure) to give away.
Now, that being said, I don't think tithing is commanded by scriptural law. That doesn't make it any less of an obligation, however. Of course, this is strictly my $.02, and not something I can point scripture and say "y'all must do this".
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While it's true that there is no shortage of tithers who use the tithe as an excuse to not give more than 10%, there is likewise no shortage of people who eschew the tithe as an excuse to give less than 10%. Both of those attitudes, imo, are poor Christian attitudes. Again, strictly my opinion, not something that is scripturally clear.
While it's true that berating a person who doesn't tithe is not biblically called for (and, imo, a perversion of scripture), I do think that every person should tithe no matter what. But that is strictly a personal matter, not an institutional matter. Churches should encourage tithing and giving, but should not enforce it. I hope that makes sense.
Now as to tithing no matter what, I stated earlier that financial analysts who counsel people with debt problems will instruct people to budget a portion of their income to give away. Why? Because it changes that person's mental outlook on money by empowering them with financial control, instead of allowing their finances to control them (which can sometimes be a sin). I myself was living less-then-paycheck to paycheck when I decided to tithe. At the time I was making less than 12k per year. I had financial problems for years prior to that. You know what? Within 6 months, I was out of debt. Within 5 years, I had purchased a house. I'm not saying tithing will get you a house, but tithing will put your heart on the right track to control your finances, that will lead you to financial security. All Christian, imo, should strive to be financially secure (note that I didn't say "rich" or "wealthy"). Financial insecurity results in us being a slave to the finances, and no one can serve two masters.
Okay, enough about my finance soapbox. Tithing makes good spiritual sense. Giving and tithing make better spiritual sense.
Any type of giving, whether it's via the tithe or via the offering, should be done with a cheerful heart. Even if one gives his entire fortune, but does not do so with a cheerful heart, it profits nothing. -
So, when we read:
Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
- it's as much applicable today as it was the day it was penned. -
(2) One man and one woman.
Any scripture anywhere in the Bible that says not to tithe? -
The levitical priests were absconding part of the tithes brought to them by the citizenry of the Nation of Israel who were apparently also holding back.
If one wants to preach a tithe, I personally have no problem with it as long as it is preached as a free will act of faith in keeping with grace as opposed to law.
We shouldn't lay a legal yoke (directly or indirectly) on the neck of those who are to live by faith.
HankD -
For instance - Any scripture anywhere in the Bible that says not to keep the Sabbath?
So are you a Seventh Day Baptist?
HankD -
Posted by JohnV:Any type of giving, whether it's via the tithe or via the offering, should be done with a cheerful heart. Even if one gives his entire fortune, but does not do so with a cheerful heart, it profits nothing.
You insist on keeping the tithe alive. Is it wrong to tithe? Yes! Because it is NOT N.T. to do so. We are to give. We MUST stop weaving in false teaching and calling it biblical or the lines will be even more blurred than they already are. There is NO tithe in the N.T.! -
(2) One man and one woman.
Any scripture anywhere in the Bible that says not to tithe? </font>[/QUOTE]Cite the scriptures which say what your 2 points were (if you can).
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