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Unlimited Atonement

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Pastor_Bob, Sep 26, 2018.

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  1. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    Does I Timothy 4:10 teach an unlimited atonement for every human being? I think it does.
    "...we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe."

    About this verse, Adam Clarke says:
    Albert Barnes says:
    I had to bolden the term "human race" because I'm sure someone will attempt to play word games and say that if I don't believe the atonement applies to the devil and his angels then I believe in a "limited atonement." I would put such people in the I Timothy 6:4 category - "He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,"
     
    #1 Pastor_Bob, Sep 26, 2018
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  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus death of the Cross was suuficient to save all lost sinners, but was intended by God to effecially aply and to save only the elect of God!
     
    #2 Yeshua1, Sep 26, 2018
  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    If the atonement is applied to all, every human being, won't all be saved? (Universalism.)

    And on the subject of the Atonement, don't you limit the Atonement to believers only, or do you think unbelievers will be saved too?

    And do you equate Christ being the Savior to the Atonement? Isn't Christ the Savior of all mankind, not just the Jews, and isn't He the Savior whether or not they believe Him?

    And doesn't Christ's death provide positive blessings even to the unsaved? Don't the former and latter rains fall on the just and on the unjust?

    And doesn't the passage indicate that Christ's sacrifice makes the Gospel Offer legitimate to all people everywhere, even if they do reject it?
     
    #3 TCassidy, Sep 26, 2018
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  4. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    God paid for ALL sin. A pardon through Jesus death is open to those who accept the pardon. Atonement is only limited by those who reject it.
    Free will exists to accept the pardon. Free will exists because you freely sinned against God wishes.

    We were all condemned and on death row, God offered us an alternative. Why does one blame God if someone dos not accept the full pardon?
     
    #4 loDebar, Sep 26, 2018
  5. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    What scripture supports your belief of atonement application?
     
    #5 loDebar, Sep 26, 2018
  6. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I think Paul speaks of a spill over effect where God prospers and uses the reprobate to provide for the Church. As in the OT where he didn't drive the Canaanites from the land all at once for the sake of Israel not becoming subject to the wild animal population. But when the last name written in the book of life comes in, the universe ends making room for the new.
     
    #6 1689Dave, Sep 26, 2018
  7. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    The names are already in the Book of Life then blotted out.
     
    #7 loDebar, Sep 26, 2018
  8. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    How so?
     
    #8 1689Dave, Sep 26, 2018
  9. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Rev 3:5

    He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book oflife, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

    Rev 22:19

    And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out ofthe book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
     
    #9 loDebar, Sep 26, 2018
  10. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    This does not say it ever happened.

    “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:9–10)
     
    #10 1689Dave, Sep 26, 2018
  11. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    The Atonement is available to all but not applied to all. It is applied by repentance and faith (Acts 20:21).

    The Atonement is available to all who repent of their sins and in faith call on the name of the Lord (Romans 10:13).

    Yes


    On another note: Please pray for Lance, a gentleman I met on our staff soul-winning this afternoon. He says he will come to church this evening. He is 70 years old and has many questions about the church and salvation.
     
    #11 Pastor_Bob, Sep 26, 2018
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Elect/the Chosen of the Lord, are eternally secured!
     
    #12 Yeshua1, Sep 26, 2018
  13. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    those who do not reject God, and I will not blot out his name out of the book oflife,
     
    #13 loDebar, Sep 26, 2018
  14. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    and I will not blot out his name out of the book oflife,
     
    #14 loDebar, Sep 26, 2018
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    But wait. The Atonement is not offered to the sinner. The Atonement is offered to the one offended. Our sin offends God. He does not offend us. The Atoning blood is on the mercy seat in heaven. If it has been offered for us our sins are blotted out. If it was offered for everyone, everyone's sins have been blotted out. That is Universalism, which I know you don't believe. But your theology makes Universalism necessary. If the Atonement was offered for everyone (not to everyone) then everyone's sins are blotted out. So how does a sinless person end up in hell?

    It is not available for anyone. It is on the mercy seat in heaven. Romans 10:13 is talking about salvation, not the Atonement. They are not the same thing. Salvation is the result of the Atonement being offered for us, by Christ, to the Father.
     
    #15 TCassidy, Sep 26, 2018
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  16. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    [​IMG]
     
    #16 SovereignGrace, Sep 26, 2018
  17. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    In their view, the cross saved no one. It only makes ppl savable.
     
    #17 SovereignGrace, Sep 26, 2018
  18. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    #18 SovereignGrace, Sep 26, 2018
  19. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    "If you are clear in your theology and in your doctrine you will know that no natural man can believe the gospel... So if you expect a natural man to believe the gospel simply because you are putting it to him, you are denying the gospel; you have not understood it yourself." - D Martyn Lloyd-Jones

    “We possess neither the ability, free will, power, nor the righteousness to repair ourselves and escape the wrath of God. It must all be God’s work, Christ’s work, or there is no salvation.” - Michael Horton

    “God Himself supplies the necessary condition to come to Jesus. That’s why it is sola gratia, by grace alone, that we are saved.” - R.C. Sproul
     
    #19 SovereignGrace, Sep 26, 2018
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  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Isn't that a promise more than a threat? “For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.” (1 John 5:4)
     
    #20 1689Dave, Sep 27, 2018
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