War between the States

I pledge alligance
To the flag
Of the Confederate States of America,
Until I decide
That I want to leave.
Soluble,
With state's rights and cotton for all

Was not trying to make anyone mad, so I'm apoligizing before I post this. Just living up to my reputation as a brat.

[ August 29, 2002, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: Grace ]

 

Grace, it's sad to say, but thanks to the federal government and NATFA (aka SHAFTA) there are no states rights NOR American cotton for all!

After reading your post, I searched the web for a 'real' pledge to the Confederate States of America...here's a VERY interesting article about the pledge!

http://www.southernindependentparty.com/pledge_allegiance.htm

 

Oh well, my isn't it nice that I can disagree with y'all and y'all aren't calling me a scallawag. OK, so I'm fiercly proud that people like my best friend's dad, and my favorite cousin are willing to give up a lot for our country. "Uncle" Tim is overseas right now because he's in the Air Force. If I could find a little red, white, n'blue smiley, I'd put him up now, but I can't . SO, God Bless AMERICA--All 50 States OH BTW, did y'all hear that my state of Ga is now the lowest ranking educationally in the nation? All y'all from Lou'sianna, did my post about being American push GA into slot #50? I thought you said that you wouldn't rake me over the coals Anyway, y'all know I'm just kidding. I'm glad I don't have to agree with y'all for you to talk to me.

 

"Oh no, that war could never be refought because there are too many Yankees and Yankee puppets in the South, now."

You got that right, gal!

Infiltration, it is.

 

Well, I'll just say that you're in good company with my friend Alan for having a Confederate flag license plate on your vehicles and leave it at that. Being a northerner, I'll probably never completely understand it, but I wish you all the very best

And I trust our mutual allegiance to our Lord Christ trumps any flag, nation, or historical interpretation

Eric

[ August 29, 2002, 11:58 PM: Message edited by: eric_b ]

 

If your friend, Alan, is saved and believes/lives by Biblical principals and doctrine then I'll agree with you about being in good company!

It's because of my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ that I take such a strong stand on these issues!

'Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God!'

[ August 31, 2002, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: Farmer's Wife ]

 

I'm not sure where that quote came from, but I'm pretty sure it's not the Bible...

Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Rom 13:1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.
Rom 13:2 Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.



Eric

PS - This wasn't meant to be a serious criticism against you personally, FW, please don't be offended. I just think it's often useful to examine statements like the quote you quoted in light of what Scripture says....

[ September 01, 2002, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: eric_b ]

 

Eric, I'm not offended! The phrase 'resistance to tyranny is obedience to God' was first 'coined' by William Tyndale...(if I'm not mistaken)...and later repeated by Thomas Jefferson. This phrase was important in the reason our early forefathers came to America in the first place and why they fought England! The 'true' preachers of the 1700's preached the truth about the Christian's responsibility to the civil magistrates.

If you will read the King James Bible concerning this, Romans 13:1 says,"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." Now, I ask you, WHO is the highest power? GOD! All of our 'higher powers' in America have a soul(s)...so, therefore, are subject unto the Higher Power, GOD. If they are not obeying God then we are NOT to obey them! Acts 5:29, KJBible, "Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men."

(Bringing this down on a 'home' level...children are to obey their parents as long as their parents are obeying God. Wives are to obey their husbands as long as the husband is obeying God. If either command the other to sin then they should be RESISTED and God should be obeyed. This unlimited submission to the civil magistrates teaching would be the same as if you taught a wife to continue to obey her husband if he has asked her to sin or if he is beating her...same holds true for the children. BUT, no one dares suggest that...so why insist on the same where the civil magistrates are concerned?!)

Look at all the examples set forth in the Bible...Shadrach, Meshach, Abednego, Daniel, Mordecai, the apostles in the New Testament, etc. Nowhere in the Bible did God instuct us to give unlimited submission to the civil magistrates! That is Catholic lie that has permeated most Baptist churches.

I encourage you to go back and read some of those sermons of the Chaplain's and Clergy of the 1700's! England taught that the King was law. But our forefathers held to belief that the Law was King (Lex Rex). What Law? The Bible! 'No King but Jesus!' was the cry of the martyrs!

 

Eric, I'm not offended! The phrase 'resistance to tyranny is obedience to God' was first 'coined' by William Tyndale...(if I'm not mistaken)...and later repeated by Thomas Jefferson. This phrase was important in the reason our early forefathers came to America in the first place and why they fought England! The 'true' preachers of the 1700's preached the truth about the Christian's responsibility to the civil magistrates.

If you will read the King James Bible concerning this, Romans 13:1 says,"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." Now, I ask you, WHO is the highest power? GOD! All of our 'higher powers' in America have a soul(s)...so, therefore, are subject unto the Higher Power, GOD. If they are not obeying God then we are NOT to obey them! Acts 5:29, KJBible, "Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men."

(Bringing this down on a 'home' level...children are to obey their parents as long as their parents are obeying God. Wives are to obey their husbands as long as the husband is obeying God. If either command the other to sin then they should be RESISTED and God should be obeyed. This unlimited submission to the civil magistrates teaching would be the same as if you taught a wife to continue to obey her husband if he has asked her to sin or if he is beating her...same holds true for the children. BUT, no one dares suggest that...so why insist on the same where the civil magistrates are concerned?!)

Look at all the examples set forth in the Bible...Shadrach, Meshach, Abednego, Daniel, Mordecai, the apostles in the New Testament, etc. Nowhere in the Bible did God instuct us to give unlimited submission to the civil magistrates! That is Catholic lie that has permeated most Baptist churches.

I encourage you to go back and read some of those sermons of the Chaplain's and Clergy of the 1700's! England taught that the King was law. But our forefathers held to belief that the Law was King (Lex Rex). What Law? The Bible! 'No King but Jesus!' was the cry of the martyrs!</font>[/QUOTE]Yes, I agree with you that we should not obey an earthly authority when doing so would be disobeying God (render unto caesar what is caesar, render unto God what is God's)... but what part of Scripture tells us we should overthrow governments (even tyrannies) since they are "the powers that be are ordained of God" (King James Rom 13:1, since you seem to prefer the Queen's English)? What part of Scripture would the South have been disobeying if they chose not to succeed by force from the Union? How were they obeying God by attempting to overthrow the powers He had ordained?

More verses from King James:

Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

(damnation is actually the greek word 'krima' which is probably better understood to mean 'condemnation' or 'judgement' in this context, as most English translations have it; but the KJV rendering only makes the warning more forceful)

Rom 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
Rom 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
Rom 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
Mat 5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Mat 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Eric

 

The South did not try to 'overthrow' any powers that God ordained! The South seceded from the union...just as the early Americans did with England. If you think the South was wrong in doing so, then you have to believe that our forefathers of early America were also wrong!

Secede: To withdraw from fellowship, communion, or association. (Webster's 1828 Dictionary)

 

The South did not try to 'overthrow' any powers that God ordained! The South seceded from the union...just as the early Americans did with England. If you think the South was wrong in doing so, then you have to believe that our forefathers of early America were also wrong!

Secede: To withdraw from fellowship, communion, or association. (Webster's 1828 Dictionary)</font>[/QUOTE]That's a non sequitur, by that logic David Koresh and his followers have had the right to secede from the laws of the US and Texas. The states of the South were (and are) under the jurisdiction of the United States federal government and had no legal right to unilaterally break those ties. People under authority do not have the right to unilaterally secede from that authority at will. Laws and government would be pretty pointless if anyone who wanted to could just opt out.

And thank goodness for all the freed slaves that the Union won that war, who knows how many decades the white governments of the Southern states would have ruled over the african americans like tyrants...

And as you said, 'Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God!', I'm pretty sure Abraham Lincoln would have agreed with that...

Eric

 

Eric, I encourage to do a deeper study on secession and states rights. Then perhaps, you will see what I'm talking about.

Again, the war was not about slavery...but on a side note, the South as a whole did not rule over their slaves like a tyrant such as depicted in Yankee tales. There were free men and women of colour living in the South at that time. There were also black Confederates...who WILLING chose to fight for the South because they believed in what the South was fighting for! But if you continue to believe that the war ended slavery and that's what it was all about then, yes, I'm sure the Northern slaves were FINALLY glad to be FREE also!

Abraham Lincoln WAS the tyrant! He declared war on the Southern civilians, their children, crops, food, homes, churches, etc. The North used Confederate POWs as human shields. Whereas, the president of the Confederate States, Jefferson Davis, DID NOT stoop to that level.

'THE SOUTH WAS RIGHT!'

 

Let's just agree to disagree on this... I regret some of the posts that I made because they were argumentative and also not as polite as they should have been. Please accept my apology, Farmer's Wife, I showed poor judgement in repeatedly provoking an argument. God bless you and yours...

Eric

 

Aw, Eric...no apology necessary! Does this mean the war is over?! (The Farmer's Wife is looking over her shoulder wondering what de Yankee is up to now...just kidding! ) C-ya!

"Iron sharpeneth iron..."~ Proverbs 27:17 (KJBible)

 

For me it is

In all honesty, I love the South and consider it a privilege to live here...

Eric

 

And yes~ THE SOUTH WAS RIGHT!

"Deo Vindice!" "Resurgam!"

"EVEN SO, COME, LORD JESUS!"

 

Hey, GrannyGumbo! Where you been? Not fighting the "tongue" movement anymore??

And I as a southerner am proud to have my roots in Baton Rouge--my wife is from Birmingham(hold your hand over your heart!!) But I am mighty afraid that the last flag that General Lee waved in General Grant's face--was white!

If the south is gonna do it again--it'll do it under the "Stars and Stripes!" Amen??

Your friend,

Blackbird

 

Hey yourself, pastor Blackbird! The granny will never give up fighting the tongues' movement as long as her babyboy is caught-up in it! Each new day brings another challenge!

With 40 acres of 'em across from me and 10 acres of 'em on either side of me & their multi-million $$$ Tab going up over behind me, there's plenty of work to do!

We're still praying that the Lord will send us a man who will not be afraid to refute their erroneous teachings!

***Sometimes a white flag is like taking the High Road!