Was Shooting of Oregon Militiaman Justified?

[poncho]

Today, Shawna Cox, who was also a passenger in Mr. Finicum’s truck provided a second eyewitness account of the events, including her efforts to try and help protect Ms. Sharp (and Ryan Bundy who was also a passenger) during “a hailstorm” of gunfire. Describing desperate pleas, screams, and constant prayer, Ms. Cox recounted her recollection of a barrage of “hundreds” of rounds of ammunition being fired into the white pickup truck by law enforcement agents – before, during and after Mr. Finicum’s death. The interview (included below) took place after Ms. Cox contacted me via text message, and in a subsequent telephone interview relayed her personal account of the events, including what she witnessed, what she heard and her first-hand recollection of how events were set-up by a suspected government informant.

Continue . . . http://www.freecapitalist.com/2016/...gic-ambush-and-murder-of-lavoy-finicum-video/

Based on the video and two eyewitness accounts, the statement said, "what we believe the video shows is that LaVoy was being fired upon before he even got out of the truck."

The family members said they believed Finicum left his white truck to draw fire away from the other three occupants, which included an 18-year-old girl. The FBI has been unwilling to release details of exactly how many times and where Finicum was shot.

"We believe he had already been shot before he ever lowered his hands," the statement continued. "We believe some of his hand movements were a natural reflex to being shot."

The family commissioned its own autopsy on Finicum that was completed over the weekend, according to a family member. The family hasn't released details from that autopsy.

The family contends that the FBI released a grainy, edited video without audio in an attempt to "sway public opinion from the outset."

Finicum's family called on the FBI to release all audio recordings from the shooting, including what Cox had recorded on her phone. They also requested all unedited video taken by drones, body cameras and dash cameras as well as close-up images of Finicum's truck after the shooting.

The Deschutes County Sheriff's Office announced Tuesday that an investigation into the shooting won't be released for another four to six weeks.

Continue . . . http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-st...ums_family_death_un.html#incart_story_package

Strange that we have people taking part in this thread that already "know what really happened" before all the evidence comes out.

No, on second thought it's pretty much routine for Baptist Board.

 

[poncho]

 

[InTheLight]

Everything is a False Flag operation, we get it.

 

[poncho]

Everything is a False Flag operation, we get it.

I'm not saying this is a false flag operation but I "get" why you'd say that now after more evidence has started to come out.

You've made a call based on scant evidence and now it looks like you might be wrong so it's switch to attack and ridicule mode to discredit any new evidence that could prove you wrong.

Typical ITL.

 

[InTheLight]

I'm not saying this is a false flag operation but I "get" why you'd say that now after more evidence has come out.

You've made a call based on scant evidence and now it looks like you might be wrong so it's switch to attack and ridicule mode to discredit the evidence that could prove you wrong.

Typical ITL.

OK, if the FBI did plant a weapon so they could take an action against someone, that is the definition of a False Flag operation. I'm merely making an observation that you see false flag operations everywhere. If you are not saying it's a false flag, why post the Alex Jones video?

I'm sorry you interpret a simple statement like "Everything's a false flag" as an attack and ridicule, it's not, it's an observation. You have repeatedly stated such, and constantly post links to sites that espouse such things. I wonder why you interpret that as an attack and ridicule? Hmmm...

 

[poncho]

OK, if the FBI did plant a weapon so they could take an action against someone, that is the definition of a False Flag operation.

No that would be the definition of a cover up. As in "oh crap we just killed an unarmed man let's plant this stolen weapon on him to cover our butts".

1. I don't now if the FBI did plant a weapon on LaVoy at this point.

2. I don't know if the alleged weapon was stolen.

3. I'm not drawing any conclusions until 1 and 2 can be verified.

I'm merely making an observation that you see false flag operations everywhere.

That's not an observation it's an opinion. More over it an allegation based on an opinion. More precisely it a false allegation based on a biased opinion.

If you are not saying it's a false flag, why post the Alex Jones video?

1. Because I don't trust the government to tell the truth.

2. Because I don't trust the corporate media to tell the truth.

3. Because the folks at infowars turn over stones the corporate media won't look under to get the whole story or at least the part of the story the government and corporate media won't tell us.

4. I believe the only way to find the truth is to look under EVERY rock for it. Especially the rocks you and your corporate sources would have us all ignore.

I'm sorry you interpret a simple statement like "Everything's a false flag" as an attack and ridicule, it's not, it's an observation.

1. I don't believe you are sorry.

2. As I said before it's a false allegation.

3. The reason I believe this is because it's been my observation that you have never had a problem with exaggerating another's statements and positions to make them appear to believe something they do not.

You have repeatedly stated such

That's going beyond the realm of exaggeration and getting close to an out right lie. Show me and everyone else here where I have said "everything is a false flag".

and constantly post links to sites that espouse such things.

That's right I do and I do it because you and others constantly post links to sites that only report the "offical" account and ridicule anyone that questions it.

That's not reporting the news. That's propagandizing for the government.

I wonder why you interpret that as an attack and ridicule? Hmmm...

I would interpret it as an attack and ridicule for at least two reasons.

1. Because I expect as much from you.

2. I expect as much from you because I have spent the last few years closely observing you attacking and ridiculing people and then denying it.

 

[revmwc]

What I have seen on some videos and heard from the folks with Lavoy is they stopped earlier and if you watch the first time they stop you can see a muzzle blast from behind them. A young lady who is described as a musician stated when they had stopped the first time someone shot at them and they took off and the pursuit took place. A statement from the FBI agent in charge was that the first stop the occupants existed the vehicle and were handcuffed. Then Lavoy jumped back in the vehicle the others were with him. It is very clear at the first stop not one of the occupants existed the truck. This agent was quite a distance back of all and he stated he saw Lavoy lunge at one of the agents when the shot was fired. Next thing is the same young women stated "Lavoy said I don't have a weapon and said I reaching for my coat." It sounded like she thought he was going to show them he was unarmed. Some where in the middle is probably the truth, but we will never know the whole truth about this.

 

[poncho]

It is our understanding that according to applicable law, the use of deadly force is justified only if there is a genuine threat of death or serious bodily injury. It is our understanding and position that deadly force should only be used as a last resort. In LaVoy's case it appears that they were determined to go straight to the last resort. It is our understanding that the U.S. Supreme Court and Ninth Circuit Court of appeals have ruled as follows:

"The reasonableness of [officers'] actions depends both on whether the officers were in danger at the precise moment that they used force and on whether [the officers'] own reckless or deliberate conduct during the seizure unreasonably created the need to use such force."

"[W]here an officer intentionally or recklessly provokes a violent confrontation . . . he may be held liable for his otherwise defensive use of deadly force." Although officers may claim self-defense, they may still be liable for using excessive force if their reckless and unconstitutional actions create the need to use excessive force.

It is our understanding that in addition to shooting LaVoy multiple times, after he was left lying harmlessly on the ground, the officers also fired upon his truck and the passengers in it, putting them all at risk, despite the fact that they were posing no threat to anyone. The video clearly shows one of the windows being blown out. It has been gut-wrenching for our family to view the video of LaVoy being shot, and then left to lie in the snow while a whole army of so-called "public servants" terrorized the others. We can only hope their families never have to watch such a thing. We will be interested to inspect the vehicle. We will also be interested to see the autopsy report.

At this point we will await the outcome of any investigation, but based on the information currently available to us, we do NOT believe that LaVoy's shooting death was justified. We likewise can't see any justification for the force and risk of serious injury or death that was exerted against the others in the truck, who posed no threat.

We know that under such circumstances law enforcement typically makes every attempt to cast such shooting victims in the worst possible light. In that regard, we also want to observe and emphasize that LaVoy had a squeaky clean record, and had never had so much as a speeding ticket. In addition to raising his own eleven children, he had also been entrusted with the care of at least 50 foster children over the course of approximately 10 years.

Read more: KCSG Television - LaVoy Finicum Family releases statement about Oregon shooting

 

[poncho]

 

[poncho]

ITL never did say whether he could hold his hands up after being gut shot.

I wonder, is it because he pretty much doesn't want to talk about anything I bring up?

Hmmmm...