hint only a mention of the Bible in that post above
Steaver in point 1 - you seem content to ignore the content of my post and the Bible evidence presented - and you make your own text "Ellen White" . I find that odd.
2. There is no evidence at all that Christ is not the sin offering. Christ is in fact the sin offering of Lev 16 - the "Lord's Goat" -
It is only the "sin offering" that provides substitutionary atoning sacrifice. Only it is slain for the sins of others.
Not in real life.
In actuality - I only present the Bible case.
And you are simply ignoring the Bible details raised in my previous post - which is fine if that what you feel you must do. I fully support the free will of each person to make that choice.
in Christ,
Bob
was the SDA "prophetess" Right regarding Investigative Judgment ?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Yeshua1, May 2, 2013.
Page 2 of 4
-
-
-
BobRyan said: ↑Steaver in point 1 - you seem content to ignore the content of my post and the Bible evidence presented - and you make your own text "Ellen White" . I find that odd.
in Christ,
BobClick to expand...
2. There is no evidence at all that Christ is not the sin offering. Christ is in fact the sin offering of Lev 16 - the "Lord's Goat" -
It is only the "sin offering" that provides substitutionary atoning sacrifice. Only it is slain for the sins of others.Click to expand...
Not in real life.
In actuality - I only present the Bible case.
And you are simply ignoring the Bible details raised in my previous post - which is fine if that what you feel you must do. I fully support the free will of each person to make that choice.Click to expand... -
BobRyan said: ↑steaver said: ↑Clear facts concerning the two goats of Leviticus 16 as revealed through Scripture;
Initial selection is made for spotless animals - to be used for the sin offering and the burnt offering.
This is because in Lev 1-4 we find that ONLY sin offerings and burnt offerings can atone for sin.
Lev 16 =====================================
6 Then Aaron shall offer the bull for the sin offering which is for himself, that he may make atonement for himself and for his household.
7 He shall take the two goats and present them before the Lord at the doorway of the tent of meeting. 8 Aaron shall cast lots for the two goats,
and the other lot for the scapegoat.
9 Then Aaron shall offer the goat on which the lot for the Lord fell, and make it a sin offering.
10 But the goat on which the lot for the scapegoat fell shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make atonement upon it, to send it into the wilderness as the scapegoat. 11 “Then Aaron shall offer the bull of the sin offering which is for himself and make atonement for himself and for his household, and he shall slaughter the bull of the sin offering which is for himself.
12 He shall take a firepan full of coals of fire from upon the altar before the Lord and two handfuls of finely ground sweet incense, and bring it inside the veil. 13 He shall put the incense on the fire before the Lord, that the cloud of incense may cover the mercy seat that is on the ark of the testimony, otherwise he will die. 14 Moreover, he shall take some of the blood of the bull and sprinkle it with his finger on the mercy seat on the east side; also in front of the mercy seat he shall sprinkle some of the blood with his finger seven times.
15 “Then he shall slaughter the goat of the sin offering which is for the people, and bring its blood inside the veil and do with its blood as he did with the blood of the bull, and sprinkle it on the mercy seat and in front of the mercy seat. 16 He shall make atonement for the holy place, because of the impurities of the sons of Israel and because of their transgressions in regard to all their sins; and thus he shall do for the tent of meeting which abides with them in the midst of their impurities. 17 When he goes in to make atonement in the holy place, no one shall be in the tent of meeting until he comes out, that he may make atonement for himself and for his household and for all the assembly of Israel. 18 Then he shall go out to the altar that is before the Lord and make atonement for it, and shall take some of the blood of the bull and of the blood of the goat and put it on the horns of the altar on all sides. 19 With his finger he shall sprinkle some of the blood on it seven times and cleanse it, and from the impurities of the sons of Israel consecrate it.
20 “When he finishes atoning for the holy place and the tent of meeting and the altar, he shall offer the live goat
Notice carefully it is only AFTER he "finishes atoning" that they "offer the LIVE Goat".
And only the "Sin offering" has blood taken into the sanctuary.
Only the blood atones for sin as Paul points out in Heb 9 "without the shedding of blood there is NO forgiveness of sins".
And as we see between the two goats - ONLY ONE is "FOR the People" -
15 “Then he shall slaughter the goat of the sin offering which is for the people, and bring its blood inside the veil
This is because the lack of a sin offering, the lack of an substitutionary atoning sacrifice in the case of the "LIVE goat" does not allow it to be a sacrifice "FOR the people".
In fact since it is "the LIVE Goat" and NOT "the sin OFFERING" -- it is not a sacrifice for anything at all.
The point is - it is "Alive" and so it pays for nothing.
But for the sinner we have Rom 6:23 "The wages of sin is death" - it is that wages of sin - that is being paid for by the "Sin offering".
This is what atonement is all about.
In the dark ages - some Christians were convinced by their leaders that they "Did God service" to ignore what the Bible actually said - to simply buy into name-calling and ranting and popular condemnation of reformers. I think we are all pretty much past that point by now.
in Christ,
BobClick to expand...Click to expand... -
Good - because you just posted the proof that Christ is not the scapegoat and proof that the scapegoat is not the sin offering and is not "for the people".
Glad you got there so fast.
Glad to help.
in Christ,
Bob -
BobRyan said: ↑Good - because you just posted the proof that Christ is not the scapegoat and proof that the scapegoat is not the sin offering and is not "for the people".
Glad you got there so fast.
Glad to help.
in Christ,
BobClick to expand...
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them." (Is 8:20)
EGW is proven to have no light in this matter, for she gives no law or testimony from the scripture to prove that what she asserts concerning the scapegoat being a representation of Satan is a matter of fact.
You did ask for facts I believe...
Just the facts please.
in Christ,
BobClick to expand... -
steaver said: ↑That's it? This is your critique of my exposition which provided six scriptural references proving the scapegoat is a representation of Christ? This is good for those who may be watching so they can see you have no answer from the law or testimony to support EGW's declaration that the scapegoat is Satan, proving her to be a false prophet.
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them." (Is 8:20)
EGW is proven to have no light in this matter, for she gives no law or testimony from the scripture to prove that what she asserts concerning the scapegoat being a representation of Satan is a matter of fact.
You did ask for facts I believe...
Still waiting for your facts on this matter of the scapegoat representing Satan as you claim to be in agreement with EGW...Click to expand...
-
BobRyan said: ↑Here again - "Details" are important. Let's list a few that we find in wikipedia.
An individual - "Jack Blanco" - wrote a "devotional".
A "Devotional" that has no official endorsement by the denomination because the denomination is not the practice of placing a denomination-level approval or not - when an individual "writes a devotional".
It is entirely possible that in the Baptist church - there is some sort of denominational level impramature placed on individual devotionals that are published so that the laity will know what is "approved" by the Baptist denomination - and so this may be the source of the apparent confusion on that point in your comment above about Seventh-day Adventists - but it is not the way this particular denomination works.
You are welcomed to your views. SDAs are strong believers in free will and you certainly have the free will to make whatever statements you wish to make.
I personally choose to take less interest in name-calling solutions and more interest in sola-scriptura Bible testing of a given doctrine.
I am funny that way.
To each his own. Free will is available to all.
in Christ,
BobClick to expand...
daniel is prophetic book that has NOTHING in it to accord with Ellen Whites views!
SDA same as Mormon, in that what REALLY counts in the end will be judgenet of how much mormon/SDA teaching agreed and lived by, NOT the Gospel of jesus! -
BobRyan said: ↑Good - because you just posted the proof that Christ is not the scapegoat and proof that the scapegoat is not the sin offering and is not "for the people".
Glad you got there so fast.
Glad to help.
in Christ,
BobClick to expand... -
saturneptune said: ↑You are correct. The scapegoat is Christ. He made the sacrifice for our sins.Click to expand...
-
steaver said: ↑Quotes - BobRyan here -
Initial selection is made for spotless animals - to be used for the sin offering and the burnt offering.
This is because in Lev 1-4 we find that ONLY sin offerings and burnt offerings can atone for sin.
Lev 16 =====================================
6 Then Aaron shall offer the bull for the sin offering which is for himself, that he may make atonement for himself and for his household.
7 He shall take the two goats and present them before the Lord at the doorway of the tent of meeting. 8 Aaron shall cast lots for the two goats,
and the other lot for the scapegoat.
9 Then Aaron shall offer the goat on which the lot for the Lord fell, and make it a sin offering.
10 But the goat on which the lot for the scapegoat fell shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make atonement upon it, to send it into the wilderness as the scapegoat. 11 “Then Aaron shall offer the bull of the sin offering which is for himself and make atonement for himself and for his household, and he shall slaughter the bull of the sin offering which is for himself.
12 He shall take a firepan full of coals of fire from upon the altar before the Lord and two handfuls of finely ground sweet incense, and bring it inside the veil. 13 He shall put the incense on the fire before the Lord, that the cloud of incense may cover the mercy seat that is on the ark of the testimony, otherwise he will die. 14 Moreover, he shall take some of the blood of the bull and sprinkle it with his finger on the mercy seat on the east side; also in front of the mercy seat he shall sprinkle some of the blood with his finger seven times.
15 “Then he shall slaughter the goat of the sin offering which is for the people, and bring its blood inside the veil and do with its blood as he did with the blood of the bull, and sprinkle it on the mercy seat and in front of the mercy seat. 16 He shall make atonement for the holy place, because of the impurities of the sons of Israel and because of their transgressions in regard to all their sins; and thus he shall do for the tent of meeting which abides with them in the midst of their impurities. 17 When he goes in to make atonement in the holy place, no one shall be in the tent of meeting until he comes out, that he may make atonement for himself and for his household and for all the assembly of Israel. 18 Then he shall go out to the altar that is before the Lord and make atonement for it, and shall take some of the blood of the bull and of the blood of the goat and put it on the horns of the altar on all sides. 19 With his finger he shall sprinkle some of the blood on it seven times and cleanse it, and from the impurities of the sons of Israel consecrate it.
20 “When he finishes atoning for the holy place and the tent of meeting and the altar, he shall offer the live goat
Notice carefully it is only AFTER he "finishes atoning" that they "offer the LIVE Goat".
And only the "Sin offering" has blood taken into the sanctuary.
Only the blood atones for sin as Paul points out in Heb 9 "without the shedding of blood there is NO forgiveness of sins".
And as we see between the two goats - ONLY ONE is "FOR the People" -
15 “Then he shall slaughter the goat of the sin offering which is for the people, and bring its blood inside the veil
This is because the lack of a sin offering, the lack of an substitutionary atoning sacrifice in the case of the "LIVE goat" does not allow it to be a sacrifice "FOR the people".
In fact since it is "the LIVE Goat" and NOT "the sin OFFERING" -- it is not a sacrifice for anything at all.
The point is - it is "Alive" and so it pays for nothing.
But for the sinner we have Rom 6:23 "The wages of sin is death" - it is that wages of sin - that is being paid for by the "Sin offering".
This is what atonement is all about.Click to expand...Click to expand...
BobRyan said: ↑Good - because you just posted the proof that Christ is not the scapegoat and proof that the scapegoat is not the sin offering and is not "for the people".
Glad you got there so fast.
Glad to help.Click to expand...
steaver said: ↑That's it?Click to expand...
steaver said: ↑This is your critique of my exposition which provided six scriptural references proving the scapegoat is a representation of Christ?Click to expand...
Six texts that make no link at all between the scapegoat and Christ - in the actual Bible.
Only the "sin offering" is said in the Bible to be "FOR the people".
Only the "Sin offering" sheds blood so that as Heb 4 says "without the shedding of blood - NO forgiveness of sins".
Only Christ the "Lamb of God" John 1, only Christ "Our Passover has been slain" 1Cor 5 in that model. He alone is the sin offering.
You did try to stretch Lev 16 into saying without-shedding-blood-there IS forgiveness in the scapegoat and/or that Christ is our scapegoat.
But for such texts we only have your ideas as the source - no Bible text.
You can't blame your lack of Bible texts to support key details in your argument - on Ellen White.
in Christ,
Bob -
BobRyan said: ↑But for such texts we only have your ideas as the source - no Bible text.
You can't blame your lack of Bible texts to support key details in your argument - on Ellen White.
in Christ,
BobClick to expand...
Still waiting for your bible text which supports EGW and her declaration that Satan is the scapegoat.
Otherwise;
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them." (Is 8:20)
You ignoring this most difficult challenge, well impossible challenge, is only showing the weakness of your prophet. Present the law and testimony which declares Satan is the scapegoat of Lev 16. -
steaver said: ↑I presented clear bible text which match perfectly with the scapegoat of Lev 16, bearing the sins of the people.Click to expand...
All will certainly agree that all the wicked and even Satan himself have sin assigned to them - but they provide no substitutionary atoning sacrifice for anyone or anything. Their life is not given in sacrifice for anyone.
Just as we see in the case of the scapegoat.
--
As for your use of six texts -
Six texts that did not prove the scapegoat represents Christ or that the Christ is our "scapegoat".
Six texts that make no link at all between the scapegoat and Christ - in the actual Bible.
Only the "sin offering" is said in the Bible to be "FOR the people".
Only the "Sin offering" sheds blood so that as Heb 4 says "without the shedding of blood - NO forgiveness of sins".
Only Christ the "Lamb of God" John 1, only Christ "Our Passover has been slain" 1Cor 5 in that model. He alone is the sin offering.
You did try to stretch Lev 16 into saying without-shedding-blood-there IS forgiveness in the scapegoat and/or that Christ is our scapegoat - but that was a case of you quoting you.
The part where you quote the actual Bible there is nothing about "Christ our scapegoat" or any such thing.
in Christ,
Bob -
BobRyan said: ↑The part where you quote the actual Bible there is nothing about "Christ our scapegoat" or any such thing.
in Christ,
BobClick to expand...
And when are you going to post the bible where it says "Satan our scapegoat"?
Or, is EGW a false prophet since there is no such scripture which supports her claim, and yours, that Satan is our scapegoat.
And since there is no such scripture, according to Is 8, EGW is proven to be a false prophet.
Or, maybe I have been missing where you posted such evidence from scripture. Can you? It's been quite a few post now I have been asking, maybe it's time to face the truth about EGW. -
True the scapegoat as a sign - has sin assigned - but clearly in the text itself we are told that the scapegoat is not "for the people" AND is not "a sin offering".
All will certainly agree that all the wicked and even Satan himself have sin assigned to them - but they provide no substitutionary atoning sacrifice for anyone or anything. Their life is not given in sacrifice for anyone.
Just as we see in the case of the scapegoat.
The wicked have sin that is not "for the people" - benefits no one.
The wicked have sin but do not offer themselves as a sin offering - benefits no one.
In Romans 2 - judgment is seen to involve BOTH the righteous AND the wicked.
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
In the judgment both the wicked and the righteous are dealt with.
But in the case of the wicked - they provide no sin offering, nothing "for the people" - no shedding of blood that results in forgiveness of sins --
As we see in the case of the Lev 16 scapegoat.
Oh no wait! We can ignore what the Bible says in Lev 16 and in Romans 2 and in 2Cor 5:10 if we just repeat to ourselves "Ellen White might be a false prophet". I keep forgetting your solution to Bible problems for your view.
in Christ,
Bob
-
BobRyan said: ↑True the scapegoat as a sign - has sin assigned - but clearly in the text itself we are told that the scapegoat is not "for the people" AND is not "a sin offering".
All will certainly agree that all the wicked and even Satan himself have sin assigned to them - but they provide no substitutionary atoning sacrifice for anyone or anything. Their life is not given in sacrifice for anyone.
Just as we see in the case of the scapegoat.
The wicked have sin that is not "for the people" - benefits no one.
The wicked have sin but do not offer themselves as a sin offering - benefits no one.
In Romans 2 - judgment is seen to involve BOTH the righteous AND the wicked.
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
In the judgment both the wicked and the righteous are dealt with.
But in the case of the wicked - they provide no sin offering, nothing "for the people" - no shedding of blood that results in forgiveness of sins --
As we see in the case of the Lev 16 scapegoat.
Oh no wait! We can ignore what the Bible says in Lev 16 and in Romans 2 and in 2Cor 5:10 if we just repeat to ourselves "Ellen White might be a false prophet". I keep forgetting your solution to Bible problems for your view.
in Christ,
Bob
Click to expand...
The reader will take note that in BobRyan's exposition, the part where he quotes the bible there is nothing about "Satan our scapegoat" or any such thing.
Oh no wait! We can ignore what the Bible says in Lev 16 and in Romans 2 and in 2Cor 5:10 if we just repeat to ourselves "Ellen White might be a false prophet". I keep forgetting your solution to Bible problems for your view.Click to expand...
Thus, EGW is proven to be a false prophet according SDA's very own standards...
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them." (Is 8:20) -
steaver said: ↑Now here we go with your double standard. You declared that my exposition showing how the scripture speaks of Christ being our sin bearer, the exact phrasing found in Lev 16 btw, was to be dismissed because, as you said, " The part where you quote the actual Bible there is nothing about "Christ our scapegoat" or any such thing."
The reader will take note that in BobRyan's exposition, the part where he quotes the bible there is nothing about "Satan our scapegoat" or any such thing.
Pounding the pulpit with your personal pov is not instructive to the reader and does nothing to help your lack of scriptural support. Your exposition in an attempt to exonerate EGW's scapegoat theology is not simply lacking or weak, but is totally void of anything relating to Lev 16's sin bearer. The scriptures you provide state nothing about sin bearing at all, absolutely nothing, and as your personal standard states, says nothing about "Satan our Scapegoat". This is simply astonishing given the fact that you constantly preach to others they must give facts and scripture. Yet, you refuse to do this very thing yourself.
Thus, EGW is proven to be a false prophet according SDA's very own standards...
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them." (Is 8:20)Click to expand...
ANY difference between that and Mormons saying we are judged by Joseph Smith as to getting to heaven or not? -
Originally Posted by BobRyan
True the scapegoat as a sign - has sin assigned - but clearly in the text itself we are told that the scapegoat is not "for the people" AND is not "a sin offering".
All will certainly agree that all the wicked and even Satan himself have sin assigned to them - but they provide no substitutionary atoning sacrifice for anyone or anything. Their life is not given in sacrifice for anyone.
Just as we see in the case of the scapegoat.
The wicked have sin that is not "for the people" - benefits no one.
The wicked have sin but do not offer themselves as a sin offering - benefits no one.
In Romans 2 - judgment is seen to involve BOTH the righteous AND the wicked.
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
In the judgment both the wicked and the righteous are dealt with.
But in the case of the wicked - they provide no sin offering, nothing "for the people" - no shedding of blood that results in forgiveness of sins --
As we see in the case of the Lev 16 scapegoat.
Oh no wait! We can ignore what the Bible says in Lev 16 and in Romans 2 and in 2Cor 5:10 if we just repeat to ourselves "Ellen White might be a false prophet". I keep forgetting your solution to Bible problems for your view.Click to expand...
steaver said: ↑Now here we go with your double standard. You declared that my exposition showing how the scripture speaks of Christ being our sin bearer, the exact phrasing found in Lev 16 btw, was to be dismissedClick to expand...
I then point out that in Lev 16 the "LIVE goat" is never called "The SIN offering".
I then point out that sin IS attributed to the wicked (even in Romans 2 not just Lev 16) in the judgment - but the wicked do not suffer "FOR the people". And so Lev 16 says the scapegoat is not the one that is designated to suffer "FOR the people".
In fact that text says "AFTER atonement has been made" - THEN the scapegoat has sin placed on it.
because, as you said, " The part where you quote the actual Bible there is nothing about "Christ our scapegoat" or any such thing."Click to expand...
Your idea that "Christ our scapegoat" should have been inserted in the Bible some place - is missing.
The reader will take note that in BobRyan's exposition, the part where he quotes the bible there is nothing about "Satan our scapegoat" or any such thing.Click to expand...
As in the case of the Scapegoat of Lev 16.
You are free to not want to admit to this point.
But your claim that there is a "Christ our scapegoat" element here - is not compatible with scripture clearly stating the contrary.
You cannot go against the Bible statements on what is needed for "Forgiveness of sins" and expect us not to notice.
in Christ,
Bob -
Origen ("Contra Celsum," vi. 43) identifies Azazel with Satan.[20]
Adventists teach that the scapegoat, or Azazel, is a symbol for Satan. It has been interpreted to be a prefigure of the final judgment by which sin is removed forever from the universe. Through the sacrifice of Jesus, the sins of the believers are forgiven them, but the fact that sins were committed still exist on record in the "Books" of heaven (see Revelation 20:12). After the final judgment, the responsibility for all those forgiven sins are accredited to the originator of sin, Satan. After which, Satan is destroyed in the Lake of Fire. Sin no longer will exist anywhere.[21]
They believe that Satan will finally have to bear the responsibility for the sins of the believers of all ages, and that this was foreshadowed on the Day of Atonement when the high priest confessed the sins of Israel over the head of the scapegoat. (Leviticus 16:21)
Some critics have accused Adventists of giving Satan the status of sin-bearer alongside Jesus Christ. Adventists have responded by insisting that Satan is not a saviour, nor does he provide atonement for sin; Christ alone is the substitutionary sacrifice for sin, but holds no responsibility for it. In the final judgment, responsibility for sin is passed back to Satan who first caused mankind to sin. As the responsible party, Satan receives the wages for his sin and the sins of all the saved – namely, death. Thus, the unsaved are held responsible for their own sin, while the saved are no longer held responsible for theirs.
All the monotheistic world religions attribute Azazel to demons. (A the very least - the wicked).
in Christ,
Bob -
BobRyan said: ↑Origen ("Contra Celsum," vi. 43) identifies Azazel with Satan.[20]
Adventists teach that the scapegoat, or Azazel, is a symbol for Satan. It has been interpreted to be a prefigure of the final judgment by which sin is removed forever from the universe. Through the sacrifice of Jesus, the sins of the believers are forgiven them, but the fact that sins were committed still exist on record in the "Books" of heaven (see Revelation 20:12). After the final judgment, the responsibility for all those forgiven sins are accredited to the originator of sin, Satan. After which, Satan is destroyed in the Lake of Fire. Sin no longer will exist anywhere.[21]
They believe that Satan will finally have to bear the responsibility for the sins of the believers of all ages, and that this was foreshadowed on the Day of Atonement when the high priest confessed the sins of Israel over the head of the scapegoat. (Leviticus 16:21)
Some critics have accused Adventists of giving Satan the status of sin-bearer alongside Jesus Christ. Adventists have responded by insisting that Satan is not a saviour, nor does he provide atonement for sin; Christ alone is the substitutionary sacrifice for sin, but holds no responsibility for it. In the final judgment, responsibility for sin is passed back to Satan who first caused mankind to sin. As the responsible party, Satan receives the wages for his sin and the sins of all the saved – namely, death. Thus, the unsaved are held responsible for their own sin, while the saved are no longer held responsible for theirs.
All the monotheistic world religions attribute Azazel to demons. (A the very least - the wicked).
in Christ,
BobClick to expand...
ALL revelations from satan himself!
Page 2 of 4