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Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Strannik, Feb 22, 2021.

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  1. Strannik

    Strannik Member

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    If you think that you understand the Holy Scripture better than I do, then explain all the places that I have already given you, but without distorting the text itself?
     
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  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    This is a false accusation. Iconoclast has never, to my knowledge, stated that no sharing of the gospel should happen because God will save whom he wills anyway. That would be hyper calvinism. Instead, what is shared is the biblical truth that God causes everyone who believes...to believe. God leaves all others to their natural outcome of separation from Him by virtue of their own wickedness.

    Your accusation against God is that you think he is unfair if he causes one human to believe, but doesn't cause all humans to believe. You have a humanistic concept of fairness.

    If you want God to be fair, then you want all humanity to burn in hell as we justly deserve. You want God's just fairness and thus hate his loving grace given to whomever he wills.
     
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  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Paul showed to us otherwise though!
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God is not a Universalist, is He?
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I hold to it as same way Dr Sproul did
    "Double" Predestination by R.C. Sproul
     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    You cannot define a Calvinist or a hyper Calvinist.
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Norman Geisler saw any 5 pointers as being by definition a Hyper cal!
     
  8. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Interesting that people use the term "Five Point Calvinists", when Calvin himself never belived in the "L"! The pastor of my first Church in London, the American Dr R T Kendall, of Westminster Chapel (Lloyd-Jones), actually was a Calvinist, but reminded me during our weekly Bible study questions/answers, that he himself was only a 4 Pointer, like Calvin was!
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    There is a vigorous in house debate on just what Calvin held in that!
     
  10. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Calvin on

    Colossians 1:14, "He says that this redemption was procured through the blood of Christ, for by the sacrifice of his death all the sins of the world have been expiated".

    Mark 14:24, "Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race; for he contrasts many with one; as if he had said, that he will not be the Redeemer of one man only, but will die in order to deliver many from the condemnation of the curse."
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    His fancy way of stating that Jesus death sufficient to save all, but will only save those intended by God to get saved!
     
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Then WHY did he not say this? As I said Dr Kendall did a thesis on this for his doctrate in the UK, and wrote a book showing from Calvins own writings, that he never believed in the "L". As did my good pastor friend, who is a 5 Point Calvinist, whose wife translated Calvin's commentary on Galatians, that Calvin did not believe in the "L"! These are Reformed scholars who say this!
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I know, just as there are many who state that he did hold to Limited view though!
     
  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    From his writings
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, but the context and what was meant and addressed come into play here!
     
  16. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    First, does it occur to you that even if Calvin didn't expressly state that penal substitutionary atonement is limited to the elect, it doesn't matter? Let me be the first to say that not everything Calvin believed was a correct view. This is precisely why it is foolish to label a person as a Calvinist. That implies I follow Calvin (whom I have read only snippets of commentary). Instead, let scripture alone determine if penal substitutionary atonement is limited to the elect or is given to all humans.
     
  17. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    So some have gone beyond even what Calvin himself would admit?...wait, isn't there a term for that?
     
    #117 Jerome, Mar 1, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
  18. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    It's called exegesis of scripture and letting scripture speak.

    Shall I call you a hyper-free willyite? (Why do I picture you next to a killer whale?)
     
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I fully agree with you, as disagree with Calvin on how he view Double predestination and Infant Baptism for example!
     
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, calvinism!
     
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