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Featured Well, what do you think

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by percho, Nov 18, 2020.

  1. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Clouds without rain

    Thanks for the conversation

    peace to you
     
  2. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I once thought that God gave mankind a second chance with Christ's first coming, and was firmly convinced of it when I was a young believer;
    but I have since realized, through careful study of the Scriptures, that it was always His perfect and righteous plan to save some by the death of His Son and to reserve others for judgment.

    Some of why I believe as I do involves what Romans 1, Romans 2, Romans 3, Psalms 10, and Psalms 14 has to say about our nature and how corrupt we really are...
    All the way to the core in our love for sin and hatred ( that can go from mild dismissal to outright hostility ) of God and His Son for commanding our repentance.

    Basically put,
    I see His word teaching that the Lord worked the salvation of individuals as part of a perfect plan of His grace with regard to salvation and the gifts of eternal life and everything that is involved with it.
    If mankind got a "second chance" after Adam and Eve's failure in the Garden ( which I am convinced none of us would have done any differently than they did ), then our favor with God rests upon what we do with what we're given;
    We're then back to it being a reward for our effort(s) and not a gift.

    But even given a "second chance", we would still fall flat on our faces in trying to gain His favor or to acquire a "get-out-of jail free" card.
    That is how bad off we really are, as a race and at heart.

    To me, there is and was no "second chance".
    Why?
    The so-called "law of chances" that many of us have come to accept as truth, means that not only are the results of His efforts in saving people not determined before-hand, but that our efforts or beliefs or ( you fill in the blank ) actually does the determining.
    As in other threads both in this section and in the CvA one, this subject gets down to the heart of the matter...
    Is salvation a cooperative effort, or is it all of grace and none of us?

    I see His word teaching the latter.
    That is where I stand, and that is where I will always stand.
     
    #22 Dave G, Nov 24, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
  3. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Well, what do we think.

    Dave G. posted - I once thought that God gave mankind a second chance with Christ's first coming, and was firmly convinced of it when I was a young believer;
    but I have since realized, through careful study of the Scriptures, that it was always His perfect and righteous plan to save some by the death of His Son and to reserve others for judgment.

    Before the foundation of the world. Foreordained redemption. Redemption from what? What was, going to happen, after the foundation of the world? Why was it going to happen? What would make it sure to happen?

    Where was Satan when God said, "Let there be Light"?

    Does what is going to take place, from God dividing the good light from the darkness, establishing the first twenty four hour evening and morning as the first day until God rested have anything to do with Satan?

    Is what God is doing relative to the Adversary of God, Satan?
    1 John 3:8 YLT he who is doing the sin, of the devil he is, because from the beginning the devil doth sin; for this was the Son of God manifested, that he may break up the works of the devil;

    On the first day of evening and morning, when God divided the good light from the darkness, what was the Son of God going to be manifested, as? And, why? Redemption? From what? What would that do?
    Heb 2:14 YLT Seeing, then, the children (Of Adam) have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through death he might destroy him having the power of death -- that is, the devil -- 1 John 3:8 he who is doing the sin, of the devil he is, because from the beginning the devil doth sin; for this was the Son of God manifested, that he may break up the works of the devil;

    On day one, just what does anyone believe, the vessel the Potter was going to form out of the clay, the dust of the ground, was going to do, when given a spiritual law?

    Did it have anything to do with Satan being on the earth? Who is God out to get? Who was he going to be doing spiritual warfare with, in the darkness of this age?

    ACTS 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

    Does God need or desire any help from man in the salvation of man?
     
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  4. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    I was reading Daniel last night and noticed the inclusion of "every tribe and nation." Here's that passage, and a few others off the top of my head:

    Daniel 7:13-14
    “I was watching in the night visions,
    And with the clouds of the sky
    one like a son of man was approaching.
    He went up to the Ancient of Days
    and was escorted before him.
    To him was given ruling authority, honor, and sovereignty.
    All peoples, nations, and language groups were serving him.

    His authority is eternal and will not pass away.
    His kingdom will not be destroyed.

    Psalm 22:27-29
    Let all the people of the earth acknowledge the Lord and turn to him.
    Let all the nations worship you.
    For the Lord is king
    and rules over the nations.
    All the thriving people of the earth will join the celebration and worship;

    all those who are descending into the grave will bow before him,
    including those who cannot preserve their lives.

    Isaiah 56:6-8
    Also the sons of the foreigner
    Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
    And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
    Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
    And holds fast My covenant—
    Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
    And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
    Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
    Will be accepted on My altar;
    For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”

    The Lord God, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says,
    “Yet I will gather to him
    Others besides those who are gathered to him.”

    Malachi 1:11
    For from the rising of the sun, even to its going down,
    My name shall be great among the Gentiles;
    In every place incense shall be offered to My name,
    And a pure offering;
    For My name shall be great among the nations,”
    Says the Lord of hosts.


    Act 17:26-27
    And
    He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us.

    Revelation 5:9-10
    And they sang a new song, saying:

    “You are worthy to take the scroll,
    And to open its seals;
    For You were slain,
    And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
    Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
    And have made us kings and priests to our God
    ;
    And we shall reign on the earth.”
     
  5. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    I agree this is an inclusion of all people. It is all prophecy.. It does not exclude any one such as does total depravity. There is no election in it.
    When I made the statement you are responding to I was discussing the election of Gentiles. There is no election of Gentiles as canadyjd claims. This in no way implies we are not included in God's plan. My contention is that claiming election for the Gentiles is pretending to be a Jew.. We are warned about making such claims.
    Rev_3:9 lo, I make of the synagogue of the Adversary those saying themselves to be Jews, and are not, but do lie; lo, I will make them that they may come and bow before thy feet, and may know that I loved thee.
     
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