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Featured Were theElect always Sheeps, and not Goats at all?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Yeshua1, Jan 23, 2020.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Speaks to the elect in Israel, but not to all lost sinners!
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Those who are His people are the ones ina Covenant relationship with Him, not all persons are, correct?
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Paul could have refused to be the Apostle of Christ then?
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Paul was still a sinner that was not right with God until Jesus became his Lord on way to Damascus!

    Do you hold to eternal Justification?
     
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Another change the subject question. The sheep refers to all mankind or contextually some portion of all mankind. The idea that "the sheep" only refers to saved individuals is as bogus as a 3 dollar bill.
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    How does scripture read to you? Give the the citation for your view.
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Since paul was chosen by the truine God to be their Apostle to the Gentiles, answer is nope!
     
  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    So Christ came ‘only’ for the lost goats and not ‘only’ for the lost sheep?

    What sort of ‘Calvinist’ are you?
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus died for His own, while we were still goats!
     
  10. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    "The Two-Seed theological stance is known in some circles as Hyper-Calvinism"

    Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit Predestinarian Baptists

    "Elder Daniel Parker (1781–1844) was one of the earlier ministers to speak out against the 'missions' movement....Parker taught that all persons are either of the 'good seed' of God or of the 'bad seed' of Satan (the children of the good seed are roughly equivalent to the 'elect' of Calvinism, and those of the bad seed similar to the 'non-elect')....a goodly number of the 'anti-missions' movement accepted his doctrine, though it never achieved anything near majority status"
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Sounds a lot like eternal justification.
     
  12. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Hasn't Yeshua1 announced that he holds to the 1689 Confession?

    Here's what those folks saw in Scripture:

    p. 14, A Narrative of the Proceeding of the General Assembly (London, 1689) "Questions Proposed from the Several Churchs, Debated, and Resolved"

    "the reconciliation, justification, and adoption of believers, are infallibly secured by the gracious purpose of God, and merit of Jesus Christ. Yet none can be said to be actually reconciled, justified, or adopted, until they are really implanted into Jesus Christ by faith; and so by virtue of this their union with him, have these fundamental benefits actually conveyed unto them. And this, we conceive, is fully evidenced, because the scripture....gives such representation of the state of the elect before faith, as is altogether inconsistent with an actual right in them. Eph. ii. 1, 2, 3, 12."
     
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    No verse to support. Assertions without citations carry little weight in Baptist circles.
     
  14. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Scripture that states Jesus died for goats?

    No.

    24 But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 15

    Sheep only Yesh, NOT goats!

    What sort of ‘Calvinist’ are you?
     
    #54 kyredneck, Jan 27, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    My viewpoint would be theirs, as while we indeed are the chosen elect in Christ, we still have to be moved by God from goat to a sheep status!
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Epeshians 1:1, 2 Timothy 1:1

    paul called by God, His will to be the Apostle to the gentiles, so was a done deal!
     
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    No verse says Paul was not convinced Jesus was God based on the Damascus Road vision.

    After being persuaded Jesus is the Christ, Paul as His bond-servant did as God willed and commanded.

    Your assertions were not supported by the verses cited once again. Calvinism is as bogus as a three dollar bill.
     
  18. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member
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    Seems the parable of the wheat and tares might offer a more precise analogy: the wheat sown was always wheat, while the tares sown were always tares.
     
  19. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Ephesians 2

    We "were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved"

    Puritan Favorites ❧ Thomas Adams (1583-1652) ❧ Reformed Theology at A Puritan's Mind

    Vol. I, Sermon XXII, p. 415:

    "Paul was once a tare, who after proved good wheat, and is now in the garner of heaven. Recte dicitur glacialem nivem calidam ease non posse; nullo enim pacto quamdiu nix est, calida esse potest, —It is truly said that the frozen snow, can by no means be made hot; for so long as it is snow, and frozen, it will not be warmed. Yet if that snow be melted, the liquid may be made hot. God, that is able to turn a stony heart into a heart of flesh, work this change upon them"

    Hallelujah!
     
  20. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    21 Or hath not the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor? Ro 9
     
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