What can wash away my sin?

[Blammo]

i dont either. never said it did. never will.

I have read many of your posts and I know you never said you did. I was using death metal as an example of why there is a limit to what should be refered to as Christian.

Christian death metal is an oxymoron. cause its death metal.

I 100% agree

christian heavy metal (like emery, demon hunter. etc.) i agree with that. i dont listen to it because i like to understand the lyrics. many can understand the lyrics of the style of music. the artists in that style - they speak about stuff happening in their lives - and the solution to it = Jesus Christ. im not talking about secular artists.

I'm not going to make a judgment about the people who perfom "christian heavy metal", but most of it is about the music, that's why you can't understand what they are saying. If the lyrics are what makes it christian, shouldn't they be understood?

again. there is no such thing as a spiritual Enote. nor is there such thing as a secular E-note. there is not spiritual or non-spiritual category when it comes to music notes.

I agree, the notes aren't spiritual or secular. But even music without lyrics can inspire emotions, (joy, peace, anger, lust, and so on). It's the arrangement and the presentation that may cause a person to praise God or serve self.




[guote=gekko]woah woah woooah!
where have any of us. (rather - where have I) - said that christian rock music was there to play for the world or to please the world? its a means of communication of encouragement to christians - and if people from the "world" hear it - so be it - they hear the message - (which is contained in the lyrics). christian artists are there to play for God. (some dont and are selfish - i agree) - but they play with a christian audience in mind. and hopefully beable to witness to a lost world.[/quote]

Like I said before, I agree with you more than you know. I am a musician. I play several different instruments, and appreciate many different styles of music. I believe music is a gift from God. I don't believe our inspiration should come from the world, it should come from God. Why should christians be influenced by something in the world, try to emulate it, and call it christian? There is a CCM station that I listen to at times. If you listen carefully you can hear something in most of the music that sets it apart from the worlds music, I can't quite put my finger on it but it's there. Every once in awhile you hear someone who is clearly trying to "sound like the world".

I think SFIC and Linda are wrong to be in the "old hymns only" camp. But I also think it is wrong to be in the "anything goes" camp.

 

[Blammo]

But they also already have country, easy-listening, Celtic, and polka. Are they as wrong to use in redemptive ways?

OK, maybe not Polka. Sorry for that one.:laugh:

Polka? :laugh:

Shhhhhhh.... three out of the four you mentioned are my favorites. I also like classical, jazz, big band, alternative, folk, bluegrass, and on, and on, and on.....

Celtic is my favorite and I think it has it's roots in..... um ...uh..... I like it.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Joshua, gekko, Tony, Rbell, eric and others.

I have read the posts that sfiC has posted and nowhere did he say that those lyrics were ungodly. What is your agenda? All I have seen is you twisting his words and attacking him because you do not agree with the message.

Your hatred for him and his wife is very evident, even though you say you don't hate them. Just because you want to hold onto the ungodly music, another person is pharasetical? legalistic?.

I think it is the other way around. Those who advocate nothing wrong with the rock, hip-hop, and rap style songs in the church are too liberal... believing every seducing spirit.

sfiC has given plenty scripture to show we are not to look like the world. That includes our actions, our music, our talk... everything we do should reflect Christ rather than the world.

 

[gekko]

If the lyrics are what makes it christian, shouldn't they be understood?

my response: many can understand the lyrics of that style of music - heavy metal.

that style of music is to a specific audience. that audience can easily understand what the lyrics are. for example - my cousin and his group of friends. they listen to alot of demon hunter. i dont - because im not in that audience.

you may or may not - but the music video for "Infected" - i can understand the lyrics for that one. thats the only song i can make out the lyrics of. i dont have any of their albums though - because im not in that set audience.

 

[gekko]

dear diggin.

you have read SFIC's posts. but im afraid you have not read any of my posts.

I have read the posts that sfiC has posted and nowhere did he say that those lyrics were ungodly.

i have already made it clear that it seemed like SFIC was insinuating that the lyrics were ungodly.

everything we do should reflect Christ rather than the world.

then we should not listen to any kind of music. ever. is that legit for you?

Your hatred for him and his wife is very evident, even though you say you don't hate them.

i do not hate them. for hate is murder. and murder is sin. and i do not wish to sin. hate is a very strong term to use. i dont hate them. i do not agree with some of what they say. i agree with some of what they say - but not all. but to so far as to label me - and others - as haters. that i see as 7th grade name-calling. i believe we've agreed not to do that in previous posts.
---

Diggin. the one thing you miss out on is that music started with God. and God will use any kind of music (for it is his music - and he can make any kind of music) to Glorify Him.

"but not the music of the world!" you say. thats where you're wrong. and you have not read what i've said - music started with God. satan corrupted it.
---

again i say this: if satan can use music to decieve people - how much more can God use His music to bring them to Christ.
---

again i say this: that we are not of the world but in the world.
---

again i say this: that christian artists aren't out there to please the world. but to give big-ups to God. they play with a christian audience. if non-christians end up being a part of that audience - so be it - its a great witness.
---

again: please read ALL posts - BEFORE making assumptions and posting. thank you in advance.
---
God bless!

 

[Diggin in da Word]

you say music originated with God, and therefore, no music is wrong if it has Godly lyrics in it.

Using that logic, we can say God ordained preachers, so even if they become crack addicts or drunkards there is nothing wrong with their message.

Now we know the preacher is to be without reproach.

If the preacher is supposed to be without reproach, shouldn't the song be as well?

and for the record, I have read through every post in this thread and stand by my earlier statement.

The attitude that is shown toward sfiC and his wife by several of you shows nothing but hatred.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

music did originate with God, you are correct.

but satan corrupted it and turned much of it into rock, rap, and hip-hop. You cannot take that which satan corrupted and use it to please God.

David wrote in the Psalm... 'thou shalt not suffer thine holy one to see corruption.' How can one use that which is corrupt to present to God?

 

[gekko]

please provide where i have shown hatred. and if there is hatred. i wish to correct it. thank you.
---
preachers would not be God-ordained if they became crack addicts or drunkards.

you have used a very poor analogy.

for the song is without reproach - you can't provide proof that christian music is with reproach. sorry. you can't prove that any kind of music notes have reproach.

what is the definition of reproach?
---

 

[rbell]

Joshua, gekko, Tony, Rbell, eric and others.

I have read the posts that sfiC has posted and nowhere did he say that those lyrics were ungodly. What is your agenda? All I have seen is you twisting his words and attacking him because you do not agree with the message.

Your hatred for him and his wife is very evident, even though you say you don't hate them. Just because you want to hold onto the ungodly music, another person is pharasetical? legalistic?.

I think it is the other way around. Those who advocate nothing wrong with the rock, hip-hop, and rap style songs in the church are too liberal... believing every seducing spirit.

sfiC has given plenty scripture to show we are not to look like the world. That includes our actions, our music, our talk... everything we do should reflect Christ rather than the world.

Diggin,

You owe me an apology. I've made one post in this thread, and it didn't address SFIC. I count him as a brother in Christ, and do not hate him. We don't always agree...but I dare you to EVER find a hateful exchange between us. Please...check my facts, and then apologize.

 

[gekko]

David wrote in the Psalm... 'thou shalt not suffer thine holy one to see corruption.' How can one use that which is corrupt to present to God?

again - you cannot prove that these styles are corrupt. that scripture is speaking of corruption yes. corruption by SIN. sin = transgression of the law. (that is a whole other topic)

rock music, hip-hop and the such like - is not sin. bible doesn't talk about it as sin. so you cannot equate music with corruption.

 

[gekko]

what kind of music do you listen to Diggin? if any?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Psalms, Hymns, and Spiritual (not spiritual) songs.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

amen, sfiC!!

 

[Blammo]

that style of music is to a specific audience. that audience can easily understand what the lyrics are. for example - my cousin and his group of friends. they listen to alot of demon hunter. i dont - because im not in that audience.

you may or may not - but the music video for "Infected" - i can understand the lyrics for that one. thats the only song i can make out the lyrics of. i dont have any of their albums though - because im not in that set audience.

Galatians 5:19-23 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

I had to go to amazon.com to find demon hunter so I could listen to some of their stuff. If you listen to them, can you honestly tell me you don't get the sensation of darkness pouring into your soul? And, by the way, have you looked at their album covers? They look like they are trying to trick satan worshippers to listen to them. Tell me they are not trying to emulate something, not only worldly, but evil.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I think SFIC and Linda are wrong to be in the "old hymns only" camp. But I also think it is wrong to be in the "anything goes" camp.

Blammo, I am not in the 'old hymns only' camp. As a matter of fact, I have written many songs that I sing in the church.

The fact that I believe that rock and roll style songs and their ilk are from the devil does not mean I am 'old hymns only.' Nor is my wife 'old hymns only.'

 

[Blammo]

Blammo, I am not in the 'old hymns only' camp. As a matter of fact, I have written many songs that I sing in the church.

The fact that I believe that rock and roll style songs and their ilk are from the devil does not mean I am 'old hymns only.'

Well then, we may be closer to agreeing than I thought. Sorry I got the wrong impression.

By the way, I noticed you specified "Spiritual" with a capital S, I should pay closer attention to that type of detail. Things like that are important. People seem to be forgetting what is important. Things are becoming more and more grey, the lines are blurred. Where are the lines anymore? So much confusion.

 

[gekko]

Psalms, Hymns, and Spiritual (not spiritual) songs.

great! do you have any examples? i mean... of hymns at the time of Christ. or spiritual songs before the 1600's?

you keep going back to that - but you have not said which artists.

i believe pianos are of the devil.
---

If you listen to them, can you honestly tell me you don't get the sensation of darkness pouring into your soul? And, by the way, have you looked at their album covers? They look like they are trying to trick satan worshippers to listen to them. Tell me they are not trying to emulate something, not only worldly, but evil.

i dont listen to them. . but of the couple of songs that i've listened to - i can honestly say that i know what they are saying - and can somewhat relate to it.

do you not understand their band name: "Demon Hunter" what does that mean to you?

again. im not a fan of theirs. i was simply bringing up an example.
---

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

Joshua... and others.

Yes?

I have read the posts that sfiC has posted and nowhere did he say that those lyrics were ungodly.

What lyrics? He went on explaining how Satan "can give one lyrics just as well as the Lord can." And then implied that the lyrics I have defended are just disguised "behind that same style of music that can be found in the bars and dance halls throughout the country." How would you read that? Oops. Guess I have my answer already.

What is your agenda? All I have seen is you twisting his words and attacking him because you do not agree with the message.

Your hatred for him and his wife is very evident, even though you say you don't hate them.

Hatred? I don't hate either one of them. I disagree, and have not implied otherwise. How dare you. If you can't do any better than that, I'll thank you to not address me at all.

Just because you want to hold onto the ungodly music, another person is pharasetical? legalistic?.

You have not heard this coming from me. Again, speak the truth, or be quiet.

I think it is the other way around.

Great. Your opinion. Now we get to the heart of the matter.

Those who advocate nothing wrong with the rock, hip-hop, and rap style songs in the church are too liberal... believing every seducing spirit.

Do you mean in the church service, in the Church, or in the church building? If you're going to accuse me of something, make it clear, will you?

sfiC has given plenty scripture to show we are not to look like the world.

Then I suggest we all start dressing like Dr. Seuss characters. Because otherwise, we all look like the world.

That includes our actions, our music, our talk... everything we do should reflect Christ rather than the world.

...including the way we refute the opinions of people who don't agree with us. (There, I finished it for you.)

That is what has been called the most into question about some here. Not there opinions per se, but the manner in which they inflict those opinions upon others. Don't agree with me? I don't care. So that means when you vacation in my town, you might not come to my church. Praise God, there's others here that will have something a little more suited to your taste... AND THAT'S OK. I'm thankful that the members of my church are open to new material and appreciative of our efforts to have a blended worship service. I still think having old and new's the way to go. I'm fine with you disagreeing. Just don't be so abrasive.

 

[gekko]

Tiggy said:

it is not the music that one should be concerned with but the lyrics......when you listen to a song that Glorifies our Saviour it is not the music that you are listening to but the words...it is all about the words.....the music is just a filler.......some are soft, some are medium and some is hard.....but it is the words that really make the song come alive.....because it is how the words are being brought forth with what ever type of music it has as a back ground......not everybody likes the hard, not everybody likes the soft, But if the words are not Glorifing our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ then it is not a song of worshipping. If you sing it in your heart then you are singing it to the Lord.......

you cannot label ANY kind of music corrupt. its not biblical to label something that God created as corrupt.

what you are doing is limiting God to what music you like. that's how i see it.

i see that what i listen to is Spiritual songs. because of the lyrics. the lyrics dont make the notes either secular or christian.

because music notes are neutral - yet used in a very non-neutral way.

 

[Blammo]

I dont listen to them. . but of the couple of songs that i've listened to - i can honestly say that i know what they are saying - and can somewhat relate to it.

do you not understand their band name: "Demon Hunter" what does that mean to you?

again. im not a fan of theirs. i was simply bringing up an example.
---

There name? Yah, I get it. They pray a lot?