Featured What day is the Lord's Day according to Scripture?

CH Spurgeon
“The Perpetuity of the Law of God”

Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.

http://www.angelfire.com/va/sovereigngrace/perpetuity.spurgeon.html


John Wesley

Think not that I am come to destroy the Law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you: Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For verily I say unto you: That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:17-20 ​

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I. The moral law of the Ten Commandments can never be broken while we are conscious of good and evil. ​

II. The law and the gospel agree perfectly well together. ​

III. God demands an entire obedience; there is no such thing as a little sin. ​

IV. Righteous Christians fulfill the spirit as well as the letter of the law. ​

http://new.gbgm-umc.org/umhistory/wesley/sermons/25/​

 

You say many things as if I had not known them.

Read the post about Spurgeon and Wesley.

The HS in you and me do not ignore the Law, which is the key point to understand.

HS didn't set up any new law which is far different from Torah!

There were many misunderstanding about Torah by the people, which was pointed out and corrected by Yeshuah!

 

WHAT THE GREAT MEN OF PROTESTANTISM SAY

ABOUT THE LAW OF GOD​

Martin Luther ​

( Catechism)

3. The moral law. Which of these laws is still in force? The moral law, which is contained in the Ten Commandments. Cannot this law be abolished? No; because it is founded on God's holy and righteous nature."​

Martin Luther engaged in several disputations with people who misused his writings to say the ten commandment law was done away with. These disputations have been printed by the Luthern Press in books entitled: "Don't Tell Me That" and "Only the Decalogue is Eternal". Following is a brief quote from chapter One of "Don't Tell Me That": ​

Repentance is the sadness we experience after committing a specific sin as well as the resolution we then make not to sin in such a way again. Such sadness is the feeling or awareness in our heart or conscience that we have disobeyed the Law of God (the 10 Commandments: Exodus 20; Deuteronomy 6). Many people hear the Law, but because they do not feel the effect or power of the Law in their hearts, experience no sadness, and so are not truly repentant....

In reality, regret is the sorrow or torment experienced by the conscience (whether it wants to or not!) when properly addressed or confronted by the Law.

In the past it was also taught that sin was simply an improper action against man-made institutions. Seldom were sins addressed that were committed against the moral law (the 10 Commandments).​

Then we turn to chapter two of the same book and read: ​

Nowadays there is a novel idea afoot! According to the promoters of this idea, the Law (that is, the 10 Commandments) should be completely removed from the Church. This is nothing else but deplorable and irreverent.

The entire Bible teaches that it is the Law which must initiate repentance.....Sin and death are not exposed by a Word of grace and comfort, but only by the Law.

The Spirit first rebukes the world because of sin ( John 16:8) so that He can then teach faith in Christ, that is, the forgiveness of sins. Paul in Romans held to this way of teaching when he first taught that all people are sinners and then afterwards, that they must become righteous only through Jesus Christ (Romans 3:23, 28).​

The Baptist Church in New Hampshire Confession, article 12, says: ​

"We believe that the Law of God is the eternal and unchangeable rule of his moral government; that it is holy, just, and good."​

Matthew Simpson, in his Lectures on Preaching, page 129, wrote: ​

"There are many preachers who love to dwell on the Gospel alone. They talk sweetly and beautifully of the fatherhood of God. This is well. It is more than well, it is essential. But sometimes they go beyond this, and declaim against the preaching of the law-intimate that it belongs to a past age, a less civilized society. . . . Such a Gospel may rear a beautiful structure; but its foundation is on the sand. No true edifice can be raised without its foundations being dug deep by repentance toward God, and then shall the rock be reached, and the building shall be through faith in Jesus Christ. The law without Gospel is dark and hopeless; the Gospel without the law is inefficient and powerless."​

G. Campbell Morgan, from his book The Ten Commandments, pages 11, 12, says: ​

"The Ten Words of Sinai were not ten separate Commandments, having no reference to each other. They were ten sides of the one law of God. The teaching of Jesus reveals the fact that these commandments are so interrelated that if a man offend in one point he breaks the unity of the law, and therefore of his own manhood. . . . These words embody a perfect law of life for probationary days. ​

The Sunday School Times editorial of January 3, 1914, reads: ​

"While God remains God, His moral law will be binding upon all who would have any part in His life. God's moral law is eternal; it is an expression* of His very being. As such it can no more be abrogated than can God himself.... We must, of course, distinguish clearly between the ceremonial law of the Old Testament and the moral law. The eternal requirements of the moral law are always binding upon God's people."​

D.L. Moody, in his book Weighed and Wanting, page 11, says: ​

"Now men may cavil as much as they like about other parts of the Bible, but I never met an honest man that found fault with the Ten Commandments." ​

He continues, on page 47, "The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. This fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. how can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?" ​

C.H. Spurgeon, in his Sermons, 2nd series, page 280, writes: ​

"The law of God is a divine law, holy, heavenly, perfect. Those who find fault with the law, or in the least degree depreciate it, do not understand its design, and have no right idea of the law itself. Paul says, 'The law is holy, but I am carnal; sold under sin.' In all we ever say concerning justification by faith, we never intend to lower the opinion which our hearers have of the law, for the law is one of the most sublime of God's works. There is not a commandment too many; there is not one too few; but it is so incomparable, that its perfection is a proof of its divinity. No human lawgiver could have given forth such a law as that which we find in the decalogue. It is a perfect law."​

Peter H. Eldersveld, radiobroadcaster, in his book Of Law and Love, writes: ​

"There is nothing wrong with the law. But there is something wrong with us. We know that we should obey it, but we do not obey it. It does not make sense to discard the law just because we break it. And, for that matter, we cannot discard it, no more than we can discard the law of gravity." ​

The law of God has always been held in high reverence. been held in high r​

everence.ht/dedication.www3.50megs.com/greatmen.html​

.http://dedication.www3.50megs.com/greatmen.html​

 

I've read it and while I have great respect for both men and look forward to meeting them but i disagree. We aren't to make the so called moral law the rule of our lives. Christ is to rule our lives. The commandments are good absolutely and thy are the expression of God's unchanging holiness. I absolutely agree. However, that law is finished for the believer because Christ has completely fulfilled that law for us.
Am I to try and fulfill it again?
No, instead we are to live according to the Spirit and obey the more stringent Law of Christ. This does NOT lead to "What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves" as Spurgeon said. That is antinomianism heresy, very different from what I'm saying. As an example: we are not free to murder because now, even hatred is counted as murder.

Regarding the Sabbath - Christ is our sabbath. He is our rest, as explained in Hebrews 4. The day we worship on does not matter.

 

Mostly I agree with you.
Now 2 points:

1) I do not keep the Law, but the HS in me is accomplishing the Law, and I can see the achievement of the Law beyond the HS.

So, I do not push the keeping of the Law, but the faith which accomplish the Law as mentioned in James and Rom 8:4

Mount Sermon was not opposite to the Law, but the explanation of the real meaning of Torah.


2) I take the rest in Yeshuah too.

Which day would you choose if you are asked to choose for the worship of the Lord, since your people do not gather together every day, every hour?

 

Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery was fulfilled in Christ and therefore we do not have to keep the commandments?

Animal Sacrifice was fulfilled in Christ, and therefore we do not have to offer the sacrifice to God.

Why is there a difference between Sacrifice Law and Moral Law?

 

I can agree with that more or less. I just would say that the Spirit isn't accomplishing the 10 Commandments law, instead it is working in us the stricter law of Christ.

If you mean corporate worship in a local church building then Sunday as that is most common and the day of the Lord's resurrection. However, I feel that believers worship the Lord every day as we love him, love others, pray and do His will.

We made good progress until this...:tear:

Christ fulfilled those commandments - Yes. Are we free to commit those sins then? - God Forbid! How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Romans 6:2

Matt 22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

These two commands sum up and even surpass the strictness of the 10 commandments because if I love my neighbor will I kill him? No, of course not! If I love my neighbor will I sleep with his wife? Again obviously not. If I love God will I do either of those things? No of course not.

But we are still imperfect, and that is why Christ already came and fulfilled even those commands - because we can't.

 

The Law of Christ cannot be strict if it cannot satisfy the Law.

You cannot love Neighbors without fulfilling the Law, or while you are violating the Law.

Which of 10 commandments can be violated and you can still be holy ( 1 Peter 1:15-16) ?


You didn't read the article Perpetuity of the Law of God by Spurgeon, did you?

 

John Wesley said:

"I cannot spare the law one moment, no more than I can spare Christ.. each is continually sending me to the other.. the law to Christ, and Christ to the law.. the height and depth of the law constrain me to fly to the love of God in Christ.. the love of God in Christ endears the law to me.. above gold or precious stones;" - (John Wesley, The Original, Nature, Property, and Use of the Law. IV.7)

 

Jesus Christ as Lord - that is, Jesus Christ because He rose from the dead - is the Word and Law of God : BECAUSE He triumphed and "destroyed the last enemy, death" which is the "reward of sin" of which "the Law is the strength". Jesus Christ in victory is what and is who constitutes the totality of Christian Faith and morals, ethics and conscience --- and, FREEDOM.

This is what Hebrews 4:8 says--this, no less, no more, no different : "BECAUSE JESUS HAD GIVEN THEM REST". Then it goes on to mention the CONSEQUENCES of the Salvation-AXIOM that Jesus had given the People of God, Rest that is Salvation once for all and all-sufficient.

WHAT FOLLOWS in 8b and 9 is not what Christ is in HIMSELF, but what He FOR the people of God MEANS.

The finished fact that Jesus had given them rest [COMPLETE and completed salvation] in verse 8b means FOR THE PEOPLE of God that God shall never speak of another day OF SALVATION again "because Jesus HAD given them rest" in the only and final revelation of God's mercies for the redemption of sinners. There will never be 'second chancers' because there never will be "another day" than the "today" that GOD SPAKE BY THE SON whether it was "in times past" or, "in these last days". Jesus Christ gave them rest, as He gave us rest. Abosolutely NO discrimination favouritism distinction whatsoever! It is FOR, ALL, THE PEOPLE of God of all times and all places!

Now, with exactly the SAME VALIDITY TO EVERYBODY who is a member of the People of God or Body of Christ's Own, the finished fact that Jesus had given them rest in verse 9, FOR THE PEOPLE of God means, that "there FOR THE PEOPLE of God REMAINS VALID A KEEPING OF THE SABBATH DAY".
WHY?
"EMPHATICALLY FOR REASON AND BECAUSE ['ara'] ... JESUS had given them Rest"! Jesus HAD given them rest" in the only and final revelation of God's mercies for the redemption of sinners. Because GOD SPAKE BY THE SON "in times past" as "in these last days, BY THE SON" who ROSE from the dead VICTOR, it says, “JESUS gave them rest … AND THEREFORE”—FOR THE PEOPLE of God of all times and all places THEIR, “keeping of the Sabbath Day REMAINS VALID” BY CHRIST’S VICTORY!

It is illegitimate to make “Jesus”—Jesus God's Rest, our Rest—, OUR doing; to make HIM ‘OUR Sabbath’ or ‘MY Sabbath’. It is audacious pride and boasting, besides being a farcical linguistic blunder.

 

Yes, John Wesley definitely was 'wel ter tale'. Nevertheless he leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

Isaiah 66:23 is also a 'specific end time event' [in my view]. And 'end-time' in my view in this specific case, may include the present end-time.

In other [plainer] words, Isaiah 66:23 is also typical prophecy about Jesus Christ and we may see it as already fulfilled in Him and the Church of Christ and, as not yet fulfilled but to be fulfilled in the last day.

In yet plainer language, I understand in this text Christ shall come again on the Sabbath Seventh Day of ALL God's REDEMPTION-FINISHING acts.

And this again implies [in my view] >statements in the Bible as in Zeph 1:14-17 and Joel 1:5, 2;1, 11, 31, 3:14<, all point to fulfilment IN THE CHRIST-EVENT as per Acts literally quoted.

Yes; admitted, The Day of the Lord and The Lord’s Day may IN THE END prove to be one and the same day!

 

But Seventh-day Adventist will of course protest, No; God does not work on the Seventh Day [… thus saying despite it nowhere is thus written].

 

It's obvious that you - by own admition - CANNOT and DO NOT "keep the Law"; so do not claim "the HS in me is accomplishing the Law"; it is a contradiction for which a much better term could be used, but I for the sake of peace and not to cause distraction shall refrain to use.