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Featured What Do Matthew 8:22 and Luke 9:60 Teach about Burial?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Scripture More Accurately, May 25, 2022.

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  1. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    Ecclesiastes 6:3 If a man beget an hundred children, and live many years, so that the days of his years be many, and his soul be not filled with good, and also that he have no burial; I say, that an untimely birth is better than he.

    God certainly has expressed His mind about a life that ends without a burial. He directed the wisest man ever (other than Jesus) to make known emphatically just how important burial is.

    What Jesus said in Matt. 8:22 and Luke 9:60 accords perfectly with what God inspired Solomon to write about the importance of burial long before Jesus gave His teaching.
     
    #61 Scripture More Accurately, May 26, 2022
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  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Exegete the passage.

    What was Jesus actually telling the disciples?

    A. Bury people under the ground.
    B. Leave worldly concerns and focus on the work of the Kingdom.

    You do not understand how to exegete Scripture, therefore it is impossible for you to understand Biblical Theology, so you cannot understand Systematic Theology.
     
    #62 JonC, May 26, 2022
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  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    LOL, in Jeremiah 22:19 the Hebrew word translated "burial" is used to refer to cremation in Gehenna.
     
    #63 Van, May 26, 2022
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  4. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    You do not provide any lexical or other sources to back up this claim. At this point, this is merely your assertion and nothing more.
     
    #64 Scripture More Accurately, May 26, 2022
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    LOL, just read the verse! Or do you not know they burned up animal carcasses in Gehenna?

    The Jews so abhorred the place after these horrible sacrifices had been abolished by king Josiah (2 Kings 23:10), that they cast into it not only all manner of refuse, but even the dead bodies of animals and of unburied criminals who had been executed. ​

    Thus a donkey burial referred to cremation in Gehenna.
     
    #65 Van, May 26, 2022
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  6. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    This is your proof for your assertion? It appears you know very little about Hebrew grammar, syntax, or exegesis. If you have actual Hebrew sources (lexicons, grammars, commentaries) that your support your assertion, this is the time to produce them.
     
    #66 Scripture More Accurately, May 26, 2022
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    LOL, I provided proof that the Hebrew word translated burial is used in the inspired text to refer to cremation, and you deny the very word of God. Give me a break!

    The Jews so abhorred the place after these horrible sacrifices had been abolished by king Josiah (2 Kings 23:10), that they cast into it not only all manner of refuse, but even the dead bodies of animals and of unburied criminals who had been executed. [snippet from Thayer's Lexicon]​
     
    #67 Van, May 26, 2022
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  8. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    So Scripture more accurately
    will you share your theological training with us.
     
    #68 Salty, May 26, 2022
  9. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    No, you have not provided any proof from Scripture where that Hebrew word is used to speak of cremation. Where is that proof?
     
    #69 Scripture More Accurately, May 26, 2022
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  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Liberals deny everything. Personal Incredulity is fallacious argumentation.

    I provided proof that the Hebrew word translated burial is used in the inspired text to refer to cremation, and you deny the very word of God. See Jeremiah 22:19. Give me a break!

    The Jews so abhorred the place after these horrible sacrifices had been abolished by king Josiah (2 Kings 23:10), that they cast into it not only all manner of refuse, but even the dead bodies of animals and of unburied criminals who had been executed. [snippet from Thayer's Lexicon]
     
    #70 Van, May 26, 2022
  11. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    Surely, if this is what you claim it is, you can provide multiple commentaries that show what you claim is true. Where are the commentators who support what you say about this verse?
     
    #71 Scripture More Accurately, May 26, 2022
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  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    And you will deny every one of them. Everyone knows the truth concerning your speculation. It is nonsense.

    Liberals deny everything. Personal Incredulity is fallacious argumentation.

    I provided proof that the Hebrew word translated burial is used in the inspired text to refer to cremation, and you deny the very word of God. See Jeremiah 22:19.

    The Jews so abhorred the place after these horrible sacrifices had been abolished by king Josiah (2 Kings 23:10), that they cast into it not only all manner of refuse, but even the dead bodies of animals and of unburied criminals who had been executed. [snippet from Thayer's Lexicon]​
     
    #72 Van, May 26, 2022
  13. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    Last time I heard, Thayer's Lexicon was not an expert Hebrew resource. The fact appears to be that you have zero Hebrew resources to support your assertion.
     
    #73 Scripture More Accurately, May 26, 2022
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    As I said, no matter the source for support, you will deny it. Pathetic!

    Liberals deny everything. Personal Incredulity is fallacious argumentation.

    I provided proof that the Hebrew word translated burial is used in the inspired text to refer to cremation, and you deny the very word of God. See Jeremiah 22:19.

    The Jews so abhorred the place after these horrible sacrifices had been abolished by king Josiah (2 Kings 23:10), that they cast into it not only all manner of refuse, but even the dead bodies of animals and of unburied criminals who had been executed. [snippet from Thayer's Lexicon]



    ​
     
    #74 Van, May 26, 2022
  15. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    Using a Greek lexicon (Thayer's) that neither cites the verse in question nor the Hebrew word to argue about the meaning and usage of a Hebrew word in the OT shows just how faulty your notions are.
     
    #75 Scripture More Accurately, May 26, 2022
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  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Your effort to change the subject to my qualification, rather than admit error is obvious to all. Like so many self proclaimed "experts" you simply provide speculative fiction as if based on scripture.

    As I said, no matter the source for support, you will deny it. Pathetic!

    Liberals deny everything. Personal Incredulity is fallacious argumentation.

    I provided proof that the Hebrew word translated burial is used in the inspired text to refer to cremation, (or other non-interment means of handling remains) and you deny the very word of God. See Jeremiah 22:19.

    The Jews so abhorred the place after these horrible sacrifices had been abolished by king Josiah (2 Kings 23:10), that they cast into it not only all manner of refuse, but even the dead bodies of animals and of unburied criminals who had been executed. [snippet from Thayer's Lexicon]​

    The snippet from Thayer's is describing a place outside of Jerusalem called "Gehenna" or the Valley of Hinnom.
     
    #76 Van, May 26, 2022
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  17. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    Not one single commentator or Hebrew lexical source that I have checked supports your faulty assertions about Jer. 22:19 speaking about cremation. Even in a discussion of that very Hebrew word in NIDOTTE (New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology and Exegesis) on supposed passages about cremation, the usage of that verse to teach cremation is not even mentioned.

    You have zero support for your assertion.

    Moreover, the folly of your argument is plain, given that Jer. 22:18-19 is revelation about divine judgment on a very wicked king who would be denied a proper burial because of his wickedness:

    Jer. 22:18-19 Therefore thus saith the Lord concerning Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah; They shall not lament for him, saying, Ah my brother! or, Ah sister! they shall not lament for him, saying, Ah lord! or, Ah his glory!

    19 He shall be buried with the burial of an ass, drawn and cast forth beyond the gates of Jerusalem.

    According to your analysis, the divine judgment on a very wicked king of his being "buried with the burial of an ass" = "cremation." On that basis, Christians who use cremation are choosing to "bury" their dead with a method used in divine judgment to punish a wicked king with the burial of a donkey!

    Can anyone argue with such a "wonderful" argument for the appropriateness of Christians choosing cremation?
     
    #77 Scripture More Accurately, May 26, 2022
    Last edited: May 26, 2022
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    What is my assertion? "...the Hebrew word translated burial is used in the inspired text to refer to cremation, (or other non-interment means of handling remains) and you deny the very word of God. See Jeremiah 22:19.

    Is this view supported in Commentaries? Of course.

    Did I equate cremation with the burial of an ass? Nope - that false claim is by the "expert" in disinformation. I asserted the Hebrew word translated "burial" can refer to non-interment methods such as cremation for handling remains.

    Was Thayer's wrong in describing "Gehenna?" Nope.

    In summary, SMA posts falsehoods laced with hubris.
     
    #78 Van, May 26, 2022
  19. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    No, the falsity of your argument was your original claim that the Hebrew word translated "burial" is used in the text to refer to cremation.

    First, you did not prove anything about that verse meaning cremation. Not a single commentator says that Jehoiakim was cremated. Not one.

    Second, the Hebrew word is not used alone in that verse. It is the noun in construct with the Hebrew noun for donkey. The word itself does not signify cremation.

    I see also that you changed your tune (without my catching it earlier) by adding "(or other non-interment means of handling remains)". Apparently, even you now see the folly of your claim that Jehoiakim was "cremated" based on merely the occurrence of that Hebrew word.

    The original claim in #63 was the following: "LOL, in Jeremiah 22:19 the Hebrew word translated "burial" is used to refer to cremation in Gehenna." That same claim was made in #65, 67, 70, 72, and 74. It was then changed in #76 and 78.
     
    #79 Scripture More Accurately, May 26, 2022
    Last edited: May 26, 2022
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  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    So this post agrees with my assertion as explained in post 76 and 78. Go figure!!
    Lets see, the Hebrew word for burial is used for non-interment means of handling remains, such as cremation.
    Thus all the places where "burial" is used does not disallow cremation. Honoring our loved ones with a "Celebration of Life" is just as biblical using a picture of the loved one as with a casket.
     
    #80 Van, May 26, 2022
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